How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business • Hacker News Board

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#101

Post by cygwin98 » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:29 PM UTC

marcamillion wrote: post #90

ThomPete wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has become the lore that you need to be a geek to build a successful software business. There are always exceptions. With regards to MBA's is there any evidence that getting one makes people more sucessful in their careers? I know it helps if you already have a job to climb the ladder, but I don't think there is much in an MBA that isn't covered in a book like "The Personal MBA" and isn't much you will lea…

So...I guess I disagree with the premise. There is no single educational achievement that anyone can get that will single-handedly assure success in their career. Have there been many success stories of people with MBAs? Yes. Have there been many success stories of people with law /medicine/accounting degrees? Yes. Do each of those guarantee success. Hells no. Does an education guarantee success? No. The only thing t…

For me...my MBA taught me how the world works. It is surprising how few people understand how it truly works - yet they speak as if they know. For that single achievement alone, I would encourage everyone to get an MBA.

That sounds like quite a claim. Can you shed some lights on how the world works from an MBA's perspective?

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#102

Post by mkbrody » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:31 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #57

gojomo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you clarify what you mean?

If I'm guessing correctly (I searched the website but didn't find any definitive answer), they are not hiring cleaners themselves, but are instead outsourcing jobs to cleaners working for themselves. It's a very common method to avoid all the pesky little taxes and legal liabilities that come with actually employing someone. It's also russian roulette for your company if the IRS decides your outsourcing partners are…

Hello revelation, all of our employee's are W-2 employee's and work full-time for our company. We pay payroll tax for each employee and while the economics is not as beneficial as the contractor model, if we were ever audited we would be just fine. Thanks, Mike

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#103

Post by jconley » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:32 PM UTC

marcamillion wrote: post #69

I love this story. This is also why I bristle when many in the Valley - PG included - keep disparaging non-technical people when they want to start a tech company. I never understood this. For a group of people (programmers) that presumably have been ostracized, shunned, and picked on in their formative years, why do so many in the valley do this to 'MBAs'. It's ignorant at best. The fact is, as has been shown time a…

"This is also why I bristle when many in the Valley - PG included - keep disparaging non-technical people when they want to start a tech company."

I realize this is probably just semantics but I want to chime in on one little tidbit here. These guys didn't start a technology company in the sense that they needed technology innovation to succeed. They started an innovative cleaning business that uses some technology. They were building software in well trodden territory with a clear scope and execution path.

If you want to revolutionize web search, or be the first company to create an eCommerce store, or run a PaaS hosting business, then you probably have a tech company. If you're starting one of these, you damn well better have a nerd or two around. :)

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#104

Post by marcamillion » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:39 PM UTC

mkbrody wrote: post #96

marcamillion wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok let's use your math. So assume they only get 30K visitors/mo. At a 7% conversion rate (which is listed in the article), if you assume that each clean is on average $50. That's a cool 30,000 * .07 * $50 = $105,000 in revenue from NEW customers every month. - i.e. $1.2M in new revenue per year. If you also assume that what they have been doing in the article is true (i.e. working on keeping customers happy) then the…

Hello Marcamillion, without going into too many specifics about our numbers we actually get a lot less than 30k unique visitors per month. However, 80% of our business is from repeat customers and our customer retention numbers are very strong. This is the core of our business and how we plan to grow. We have done basically zero off-line marketing.

That's even more impressive than my numbers.

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#105

Post by mkbrody » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:40 PM UTC

nthj wrote: post #80

tejay wrote: post #4

Wow, fantastic. Cool story too. So, how often was your developer in Canada at the movies when you called? Haha

Clients who won't pay for retainers (with optional SLA attachments for emergencies, if required) shouldn't make public quips about their contract developers being at the movies. The market is such that I do not have to be available 24/7 for $100/hour, billable in 15-minute increments, no matter how much startup CEOs wish this wasn't the case.

You're right nthj, we didn't mean to complain or to understate the important of amazing development!

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#106

Post by physcab » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:41 PM UTC

marcamillion wrote: post #69

I love this story. This is also why I bristle when many in the Valley - PG included - keep disparaging non-technical people when they want to start a tech company. I never understood this. For a group of people (programmers) that presumably have been ostracized, shunned, and picked on in their formative years, why do so many in the valley do this to 'MBAs'. It's ignorant at best. The fact is, as has been shown time a…

> why do so many in the valley do this to 'MBAs'.

Because every technical person has a story about:

  - "Idea people" telling them what to do and taking all the credit.
  - A non-technical manager setting unreasonable deadlines.
  - A non-technical manager trivializing a complex task. 
  - "Oh we'll just get him/her to write some code".
  - Being treated as if their talents are a commodity.
  - Being treated as if they cannot communicate like other humans.
  - Putting in blood, sweat, and tears into a project for little or no pay.
  - Studying like mad in college while everyone else seemed to be partying 
    (or this could just be me)

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#107

Post by larrys » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:43 PM UTC

marcamillion wrote: post #69

I love this story. This is also why I bristle when many in the Valley - PG included - keep disparaging non-technical people when they want to start a tech company. I never understood this. For a group of people (programmers) that presumably have been ostracized, shunned, and picked on in their formative years, why do so many in the valley do this to 'MBAs'. It's ignorant at best. The fact is, as has been shown time a…

"why I bristle when many in the Valley - PG included - keep disparaging non-technical people when they want to start a tech company."

PG's outlook (if you are correct) is based on his background perhaps - this from his wikipedia page:

"Graham has a Bachelor of Arts in philosophy from Cornell University.... He then attended Harvard University, earning Master of Science (1988) and Doctor of Philosophy (1990) degrees in Applied Sciences with a specialization in computer science.... He has also studied painting at the Rhode Island School of Design and the Accademia di Belle Arti in Florence."

From this I can deduce that PG wasn't "business minded" in high school although maybe he did run some business on the side etc to make money (I don't know). But he wasn't interested enough in it to attend a business school as an undergraduate. If that had been the case instead of going to Cornell he might have chosen Wharton for undergraduate business. In Wharton UG (I graduated) most of the people - the majority of people that I met - knew that they wanted to be in business just like some people know growing up they want to be doctors. Only difference is those people can do something before college obviously nobody is going to practice medicine prior to training.

So I would suspect that PG's view of the world was based upon his ability to program and put together viaweb and without that programming skill (especially back then) viaweb probably wouldn't have happened. (Morris on the other hand, while a programmer, is a bit devious (worm) so that definitely is a quality that is helpful in business.

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#108

Post by mkbrody » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:44 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #11

axusgrad wrote: post #2

Great :) My house is kind of dirty, have any advice on how to find a good cleaner outside of the NYC area?

Exec and Homejoy service a few more cities.

Exec and Homejoy are amazing companies and we have nothing but positive things to say about our competitors. However, I am fairly certain that they 1099 their employee's which means they use independent contractors. This is a different labor model and makes expansion a lot easier. It also has a lot of risks. All MyClean employee's are W-2 employee's and work for the company full-time. We will also be expanding soon!

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#109

Post by sixQuarks » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:44 PM UTC

mkbrody wrote: post #96

marcamillion wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok let's use your math. So assume they only get 30K visitors/mo. At a 7% conversion rate (which is listed in the article), if you assume that each clean is on average $50. That's a cool 30,000 * .07 * $50 = $105,000 in revenue from NEW customers every month. - i.e. $1.2M in new revenue per year. If you also assume that what they have been doing in the article is true (i.e. working on keeping customers happy) then the…

Hello Marcamillion, without going into too many specifics about our numbers we actually get a lot less than 30k unique visitors per month. However, 80% of our business is from repeat customers and our customer retention numbers are very strong. This is the core of our business and how we plan to grow. We have done basically zero off-line marketing.

If this is truly done with zero offline marketing, then I stand corrected. It's indeed impressive that non-techie bootstrappers accomplished this.

Re: How We Bootstrapped a $20K Website into a $4M/year Business

#110

Post by mkbrody » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 9:46 PM UTC

bkmartin wrote: post #23

mkbrody wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you're located, but you may want to try Angie's List. I know they have a relationship with quality cleaning companies in many areas: http://www.angieslist.com/cleaning/ . Thanks for reading!

I know in the article you say that outsourcing to third parties did not work out well for you. If you are willing to point other people to angieslist as an implied trusted source couldn't you use that as a way to vet your cleaners and expand to other cities rather quickly?

Hello bkmartin, our strategy so far has been to hire and train cleaners from the ground up. We provide training, steady work, and a path to numerous promotions. I'm not sure we add much value for cleaners who already have a business?