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New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

extremetech.com

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Re: New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

#31

Post by gvb »

gambiting wrote: post #17

"2000 times more powerful, recharges 1000 times faster " - so it will still take twice as long to charge it fully then?

No, the energy density is not all that unusual. Assuming the battery is 2000AH and is 100% efficient, the "2000 times more powerful" means you can (theoretically!) discharge it 2000 times faster than the benchmark battery (e.g. 2000A over 1 hour vs. 1A over 2000 hours).

The 1000x recharge rate means you can put the energy back in 1000x faster than the benchmark battery (e.g. 1000A x 2 hours vs. 1A x 2000 hours).

Due to the energy density being comparable, I would expect the actual size of a 2000AH New Improved[tm] lithium-ion battery would be comparable to the size of a traditional 2000AH "benchmark" battery.

Disclaimer: All the numbers made up out of thin air using values that were easy to do in my head.

Re: New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

#33

Post by meepmorp »

colanderman wrote: post #25
icegreentea wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... it's tricky. If you assume that current electric cars have the performance of that A123 battery from the graph, and then pick something in the middle of the spread of the colourful dots, you get a roughly 1 order decrease in energy density, and a 1 order increase in power density. So, taking the Model S as an example, you have a 300 mile range, and a charge time of like 45 minutes at a super charger. So... no…

Don't you mean a charge in 24-30 seconds? Otherwise your example is just that of a 10x smaller A123 battery.

45 min is 2700 seconds, so 10x faster charging is 270 seconds or 4 1/2 minutes.

Re: New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

#34

Post by mark-r »

lutusp wrote: post #2

This is a classic case of a submission title taking liberties with the meaning of the article it links. This submission's title: "New lithium-ion battery 2000 times more powerful, recharges 1000 times faster" The actual title: "New lithium-ion battery design that’s 2,000 times more powerful, recharges 1,000 times faster" The missing word is "design", a word that is crucial to the meaning of the article. The article d…

The original title wasn't the greatest either, probably engineered to be link-bait. Nobody cares how fast you can get power out of the thing, they care how much total energy it holds - and the article is clear that it is comparable or slightly worse than current technology.

Re: New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

#35

Post by bradleyland »

jguimont wrote: post #27
icegreentea wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... it's tricky. If you assume that current electric cars have the performance of that A123 battery from the graph, and then pick something in the middle of the spread of the colourful dots, you get a roughly 1 order decrease in energy density, and a 1 order increase in power density. So, taking the Model S as an example, you have a 300 mile range, and a charge time of like 45 minutes at a super charger. So... no…

Could electric car battery use a dual type battery pack to optimize charging and range?

You could do that, but energy density is the key metric here.

Energy density determines the size of the battery required to store a specific amount of energy. There's only so much space in the car, and you also have to factor in that any battery that will be moved by its own power loses efficiency with lower energy density. You've got a huge battery to move, and physics dictate that accelerating this battery is going to use more energy.

So, let's say you split this hybrid battery 50/50, your quick charge-discharge battery quickly becomes too small to deliver meaningful range, and you've given up space that could be used for the traditional battery.

Re: New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

#38

Post by chongli »

jguimont wrote: post #27
icegreentea wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... it's tricky. If you assume that current electric cars have the performance of that A123 battery from the graph, and then pick something in the middle of the spread of the colourful dots, you get a roughly 1 order decrease in energy density, and a 1 order increase in power density. So, taking the Model S as an example, you have a 300 mile range, and a charge time of like 45 minutes at a super charger. So... no…

Could electric car battery use a dual type battery pack to optimize charging and range?

The Tesla Model S already uses 7000 individual battery cells. This is how it's able to charge as quickly as it does with the supercharger. The main limitation of household charging is lack of power.

Re: New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

#39

Post by flakmonkey »

meepmorp wrote: post #33
colanderman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you mean a charge in 24-30 seconds? Otherwise your example is just that of a 10x smaller A123 battery.

45 min is 2700 seconds, so 10x faster charging is 270 seconds or 4 1/2 minutes.

The rate that the battery charges is independent from the capacity of the battery. Assuming the new tech is 10x less energy dense and has a 10x faster charge rate, if you compare one of these new batteries with capacity equal to that of the Model S battery, the new battery will charge 10x faster but occupy 10x the volume, since it is less energy dense. A new battery of this kind that occupied the same volume as a Model S would contain 10x less energy than the Model S battery, but it would charge to full capacity 100x faster than the Model S.

Re: New lithium-ion battery design – 2,000x more powerful, recharges 1,000x faster

#40

Post by cdash »

meepmorp wrote: post #33
colanderman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you mean a charge in 24-30 seconds? Otherwise your example is just that of a 10x smaller A123 battery.

45 min is 2700 seconds, so 10x faster charging is 270 seconds or 4 1/2 minutes.

There should be two multipliers though right? If it charges 10x faster and you are charging to a 10x less total energy it should charge 100x faster right?
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