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I Stand With Trolls

braythwayt.com

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Re: I Stand With Trolls

#11

Post by zacharyvoase »

Just an anecdote, which I know is not the singular form of 'data', but still:

I respect Mozilla as a company, but have no desire to work there (despite there being a lot of technology fit) because the CTO, Brendan Eich, made a donation of $1,000 to support Prop 8—a 2008 California ballot measure which banned gay marriage. Sure, I understood that his views were not those of his employer. But that doesn't make it easier for me to want to work for/with the guy.

See, I don’t think it’s about the public message that companies send to their consumers. It’s about the message they give to potential hires: you’ll be working with these people on a daily basis. Depending on the dispensability of the employee in question, a company may choose to fire someone rather than potentially rule out a large number of future employees. It’s an economic decision.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#12

Post by shardling »

tptacek wrote: post #7

Saying unpopular things on Twitter isn't trolling. You stand with people who speak their mind in public. I'm not sure you mean to stand with the trolls. Those people usually aren't speaking their minds.

Apparently Orth later stated that:

>“[That was] just the normal daily back and forth I have with Manveer,” Orth wrote on Twitter later. “Apologies for offending non-cities. I was trolling him personally.”

http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/05/microsoft-studios-creative...

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#13

Post by tixocloud »

I think that regardless of what employees say, if it has the potential to negatively influence the company's business in any way, there's likely to be repercussions. Even if we choose to disassociate our statements from employers, I think the general public will think something along the lines of "Some MS employee said X" = "MS said X".

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#14

Post by andrewljohnson »

shardling wrote: post #12
tptacek wrote: post #7

Saying unpopular things on Twitter isn't trolling. You stand with people who speak their mind in public. I'm not sure you mean to stand with the trolls. Those people usually aren't speaking their minds.

Apparently Orth later stated that: >“[That was] just the normal daily back and forth I have with Manveer,” Orth wrote on Twitter later. “Apologies for offending non-cities. I was trolling him personally.” http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/05/microsoft-studios-creative...

Unfortunately for him, what his words meant in context is irrelevant. He gave the public a hint that Microsoft might feel like people should just put up with the always-connected nature of consoles, and that Microsoft intended to steamroll the naysayers. That's just bad PR no matter what anyone meant to say or who they meant to say it to.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#15

Post by sodomizer »

zacharyvoase wrote: post #10

Just an anecdote, which I know is not the singular form of 'data', but still: I respect Mozilla as a company, but have no desire to work there (despite there being a lot of technology fit) because the CTO, Brendan Eich, made a donation of $1,000 to support Prop 8—a 2008 California ballot measure which banned gay marriage. Sure, I understood that his views were not those of his employer. But that doesn't make it easie…

I think it's a terrible idea to judge other people's political decisions until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

If you are a professional, you should be ready to work with anyone, not just the people who agree with you.

Your view is not objectively correct. To insist otherwise is fascism.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#16

Post by sodomizer »

tixocloud wrote: post #13

I think that regardless of what employees say, if it has the potential to negatively influence the company's business in any way, there's likely to be repercussions. Even if we choose to disassociate our statements from employers, I think the general public will think something along the lines of "Some MS employee said X" = "MS said X".

I think his point is that if we encourage that mentality and don't fight it on twitter etc, soon no accounts will be associated with the employers unofficially, and thus we won't get any of the news that leaks out that way. Our loss.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#18

Post by michaelochurch »

Troll (mostly white-hat, these days) here. Had a gray-hat trolling habit as a teenager and in early 20s. Now I try to direct any hypergraphic tendencies to worthier causes. Denouncing idiocy is charity work that I do. However, I've "trolled for good" quite a bit and have really suffered for it, as the world unfortunately knows.

The guys at the game company didn't deserve to be fired. They were engineers having a (somewhat obnoxious) private conversation. Adria Richards did. I can't defend her, because her job was PR and she condescended to a mean-spirited, name-and-shame attack on people she didn't know. (She didn't deserve the onslaught of horrible things said about her, clearly, but she fucked up and deserved to lose her job. I've lost jobs over less.)

I hate the private-sector politician life more than anyone, as one can tell by my railing against it, but if your job is to be the public face of a company, then you choose not to have the same rights to public/private separation as most people, just as elected officials can't let their guards down. So that's why I can't stand with Adria.

That does not apply to people like Aaron Orth. CEOs are public faces; almost everyone else is a public individual. Orth being fired over that tweet is just ridiculous. This is why I hate 99+ percent of corporations. If you turn your back on someone just because he becomes unpopular, then you are of no use to anyone. Corporations with no moral fiber deserve to be dissolved, and their resources reallocated to the public interest. I am all for private enterprise, but only if it stands for something. If you fire someone because an off comment gets negative attention, then you don't have any moral constitution anymore and there's no reason to allow you ("you" being a company; I'm not advocating killing people) to continue to exist.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#19

Post by michaelochurch »

zacharyvoase wrote: post #10

Just an anecdote, which I know is not the singular form of 'data', but still: I respect Mozilla as a company, but have no desire to work there (despite there being a lot of technology fit) because the CTO, Brendan Eich, made a donation of $1,000 to support Prop 8—a 2008 California ballot measure which banned gay marriage. Sure, I understood that his views were not those of his employer. But that doesn't make it easie…

Prop 8 was disgusting, but I would have more reservations about working for a company that fired someone over his political beliefs, than at one that happened to have a conservative CTO.

If I work for a company that takes a cavalier approach to firing, I'm putting my career at risk. But as long as there aren't other character issues, I don't think a conservative CTO is damning. They might not even know; it's not really their job not to hire Republicans.

(I can't believe I am, sort of, defending Republicans here.)

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