Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation • Hacker News Board

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#51

Post by darxius » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:01 AM UTC

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #44

darxius wrote: post #42

I've always been interested by this sort of stuff (as I'm sure several people are -- especially the HN audience). It always brings up a bunch of interesting questions: - If we're self aware of the simulation, would we be able (or ever want to) reverse engineer the fabric of which makes up our sim? - Would there be infinite simulations? How far _up_ does the rabbit hole go? - Another idea, and this is reaching, would…

The problem with this theory (the universe is a simulation) is that it's a tautology. You cannot prove or disprove it, and for practical reasons it changes nothing if you assert it's true. What is really being researched is whether the universe is computable , because that's something you can prove.

If they can prove the universe is computable and that we would (given the resources) create a simulation of our own, wouldn't that lend credence to the idea that we would be in a simulation as well?

I see what you mean though, it would be impossible (with our current understanding of ... everything) to actually determine is we're in a sim or not.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#52

Post by GhotiFish » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:02 AM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #4

If I wake up naked and sliding down a drain pipe, I'm gonna be really upset...

On the plus side, programming is about to become much more interesting for you!

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#53

Post by nate_martin » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:02 AM UTC

I've always thought that quantum theory provided some decent evidence for this. Instead of always computing every value for every result, the universe does so only when things are "observed", saving on computation.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#54

Post by catshirt » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:04 AM UTC

spoiler wrote: post #6

Well, this explains all the bugs and glitches in life like disease, death, assbutts, war, famine, broken hearts...

bugs? i'd imagine disease and war are pretty useful for the purpose of a simulation.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#55

Post by aswanson » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

benhamner wrote: post #12

If you're interested in going a bit deeper on this, Nick Bostrom ( http://nickbostrom.com/ ) has pulled together an intriguing case: http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html A provoking question: if we found evidence that convinced us, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we were living in a computer simulation, would you change your behavior?

Bostrom's postulates are exceedingly bad. His assumptions rely to much on the isotropy of properties of the one "real" existence and the simulated ones. I would expect, statistically, that there would be far more universes simulated that have properties that are nothing like the "real" one as technology progresses, i.e. there are more instances of "sonic the hedgehogs" and "super mario brothers 1" over the more "realistic" call of duty. It follows that if our universe is one of the more probable universes that our laws of logic and probability estimates are not calculated from probable postulates, thus our assumptions leading to any conclusion are probably in error.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#56

Post by dgordon » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

benhamner wrote: post #38

brodney wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you?

Are they using a pseudo-random number generator with a set seed, or is there a better source of randomness? ;) I treat free will as an assumption: - If we are, in fact, predestined, assuming I have free will doesn't hurt or matter. - If we do have free will, I'm applying that free will to make decisions based on a correct assumption - If we do have free will and I had assumed we were predestined, this could have wors…

"If we are, in fact, predestined, assuming I have free will doesn't hurt or matter."

Not to mention you were predestined to assume so.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#57

Post by adventured » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #24

"The alternative - that we're the first civilisation, in the first universe - is virtually (no pun intended) absurd." As opposed to us simply being some other civilization on one of the other billions of habitable planets in that same "first" universe?

The odds are statistically equal that we're the first civilization and that we're the 5 millionth (in this iteration of the universe).

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#58

Post by aswanson » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:08 AM UTC

endtime wrote: post #35

I think it's a bit silly to try to infer things about the computer that could be simulating our universe based on things internal to the simulation. Many of our fictions don't have the same laws of physics as we do.

Exactly.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#59

Post by JackFr » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:09 AM UTC

"The theory basically goes that any civilisation which could evolve to a 'post-human' stage would almost certainly learn to run simulations on the scale of a universe. And that given the size of reality - billions of worlds, around billions of suns - it is fairly likely that if this is possible, it has already happened."

That sounds distinctly like Anselm's ontological proof for the existence of God, and thus likely suffers from the same logical fallacies.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#60

Post by GuiA » Wed, Apr 17, 2013, 3:11 AM UTC

>"Essentially, Savage said that computers used to build simulations perform "lattice quantum chromodynamics calculations" - dividing space into a four-dimensional grid."

I thought current quantum physics determined the universe had 13 dimensions? (two time version of M-theory)