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Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

articles.sun-sentinel.com

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Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#41

Post by jacalata »

ryderm wrote: post #22

> The reporters found nearly 800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph, many of them while off duty. Well, driving above the speed limit while on duty is required. Why would that be included in the statistic? And driving 90 is hardly out of the ordinary where I'm from. That being said, driving 120 or 130 while off duty is clearly a bad idea.

"Well, driving above the speed limit while on duty is required."

Not always. It is technically not even allowed unless they are actively responding to a call, I believe. (There's a lot of police work that involves being in a marked car without being on your way to stop a robbery in progress).

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#42

Post by fludlight »

jere wrote: post #10

>The reporters found nearly 800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph, many of them while off duty. The accidents caused by officers driving at high speeds had caused at least 320 crashes since 2004, killing or maiming 21 people. That's such a horrifying statistic if true. Even at their peak, homicide offending rates in the US were at around 20 per 100,000; assault rates about 10 times as high: http://bjs.gov/con…

They didn't just reach speeds of 130mph, but average speeds of 130mph over a distance of several miles. Their maximum speed was probably closer to 150-180.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#43

Post by civilian »

mrmaddog wrote: post #29
civilian wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the period of 2004-2011. So divide by 7. You should also try to find the vehicular death per 100k statistic.

Exactly. Per Wikipedia it is about 12 deaths per 100k on average from the period of 2004-2012. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_...

Huh! So we're at 3 deaths/maims per year for X number of cops, vs. 12 deaths per 100k for the general populace.

It's all about the division at this point. How many cops were there in that region? If it's just Miami-Dade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_Police_Department Officers 3,034

soooo.... 3 * (100/3) = 100 deaths per 100k of police population.

Which is 8x the normal rate. It's bad, but it's not too outrageous.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#44

Post by jrockway »

fancyketchup wrote: post #16
jrockway wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you need to fire someone for driving 125mph at 4 o'clock in the morning. The punishment should fit the crime.

Is it also kosher to drive while intoxicated at 4 o'clock in the morning? I'm not asking to be snarky, I just don't understand the line of reasoning. It seems like you are saying that engaging is behaviors that are risky to other members of the public are ok as long as nobody is hurt on the specific instance in which you engage in them.

I didn't say that he should not be punished, I said that he shouldn't be fired. If we fired everyone for every mistake in judgement, nobody would be doing any work.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#45

Post by ajmurmann »

Nothing makes me more upset than corrupt cops. Obviously the off-duty cops got away with speeding because cops don't give tickets to other cops. That's the real scandal. Corrupt cops undermine the entire legal system, which is much worse than anything any terrorist could ever hope to achieve. They should be treated accordingly!

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#46

Post by samolang »

jere wrote: post #30
corwinstephen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frustrating? Yes. Shocking? No. Did anyone really believe that taking a job as a police officer somehow suppressed these people's natural desire to drive fast? Hell, that's probably what make them join the force in the first place. Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doin…

>Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doing it. Why would you expect the cops to be any different? Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? a) A higher standard? Sure. I suppose I'm extremely nai…

Regarding a (at least in the US) I think a big part of the problem is a system of laws that people generally agree is unjust (i.e. the drug laws)

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#47

Post by ajmurmann »

a3n wrote: post #5
[deleted] wrote: post #4

[deleted]

They got away with it because they're cops .They sped outrageously (literally) because they knew they'd face no consequences. That's an abuse of public trust and duty, whether they're on or off duty.

Exactly! My point is that real scandal for me is that apparently most cops won't give other cops a speeding ticket, which enabled the speeding and killing of 20 people in the first place.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#48

Post by vacri »

civilian wrote: post #43
mrmaddog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Per Wikipedia it is about 12 deaths per 100k on average from the period of 2004-2012. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_...

Huh! So we're at 3 deaths/maims per year for X number of cops, vs. 12 deaths per 100k for the general populace. It's all about the division at this point. How many cops were there in that region? If it's just Miami-Dade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_Police_Department Officers 3,034 soooo.... 3 * (100/3) = 100 deaths per 100k of police population. Which is 8x the normal rate. It's bad, but it's not too outr…

Apples and oranges. The number in the article is 'crashes caused by officers driving at high speed', the general pop statistic is all vehicular deaths.

Similarly, deaths per 100k is the rate of victimisation amongst the population. Deaths per number of officers is a rate of offending, not victimisation.

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#49

Post by dllthomas »

samolang wrote: post #46
jere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doing it. Why would you expect the cops to be any different? Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? a) A higher standard? Sure. I suppose I'm extremely nai…

Regarding a (at least in the US) I think a big part of the problem is a system of laws that people generally agree is unjust (i.e. the drug laws)

In my mostly uninformed opinion, drug laws are a huge part of the problem in terms of public interfacing with the police.

That said, while people may complain about particular speed limits, I don't think very many would call a cap somewhere below 120mph "unjust".

Re: Data journalism busts speeding cops, wins Pulitzer

#50

Post by uxp »

ryderm wrote: post #22

> The reporters found nearly 800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph, many of them while off duty. Well, driving above the speed limit while on duty is required. Why would that be included in the statistic? And driving 90 is hardly out of the ordinary where I'm from. That being said, driving 120 or 130 while off duty is clearly a bad idea.

> Well, driving above the speed limit while on duty is required.

Admittedly, it's not really physically possible to catch up to someone traveling at 90 mph when you're limited to 65, however they have lights and sirens that, according to law, they are required to use while responding to an emergency or incident, which broadly covers speeding.

According to the original article, more than half of all incidents occurred outside of the officers jurisdictions. Miami-Dade limits officers to 20 mph above the speed limit at all times, even while enroute to an emergency (270 cops were found going over 90, 70 being the highest speed limit in Miami-Dade). FHP limits officers to 15 above the posted limit, but does allow excesses if the situation requires it, but only if the environment allows it and it is safe to do so, but earns the prize for the fastest speed of 129.8 mph.

http://databases.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/ftlaudCopSpee...

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