Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

caines.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 106 posts

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#61

Post by MetaCosm »

xb95 wrote: post #40
MetaCosm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge difference in the barrier to entry. To contribute a module to cpan versus contributing a module to NPM. You might consider the barrier a feature, but it is a wild difference.

Well, if your argument is that it's easier to contribute to NPM, then you should consider that Perl has been managing the same output for 18 years that the Node community has for the past four: about 6700 modules/year. For what it's worth, uploading to CPAN is not very difficult. Getting a PAUSE account is easy and uploading is no problem. It's really no harder than the PyPI system.

Step #1 is "apply". That is a hell of a barrier to entry. You also need to explain what you want to do with the pause account.

As I said in another comment, it might end up being to the detriment of node, but now it feels like a feature.

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#62

Post by PuerkitoBio »

Xcelerate wrote: post #36
shadowmint wrote: post #15

Obviously if Node doesnt come 'batteries included' then you have to re-invent-from-scratch all the tools like package management, dependency management, MVC libraries, etc. That doesn't mean the community is amazing and wants to contribute! ...it means, that those features didn't exist, and someone had to do them (and yes, it's really great that they're all coming out open source, but it's not revolutionary) Any lang…

I like the fact that Node comes with a small core. I'm tired of vast, bloated, incomprehensible libraries that are going to take me more time to learn how to use than they'll be worth.

But because it comes with a small core, the time you saved will be spent searching and learning userland modules, written with wildly varying degrees of stability and coding styles. Unless, of course, you just use your own, then your time has been spent there. Much more of it.

I'm not trying to put node down, I'm a fan (switched to Go for most of my needs about a year ago, though), but this argument (small core so less to understand) just isn't valid if you're going to do anything more involved than learning the language and writing hello worlds.

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#64

Post by aneth4 »

Just what I want in a framework. Thousands of libraries with functional overlap, each tested in a small number of real use cases and having a large number of undiscovered bugs, none of which is flexible enough to solve my problem or has a large community to maintain it.

In time, node users will realize the pain of abandoned library dependencies and the overhead of researching alternatives and grinding through bugs and functional gaps in poorly planned libraries.

I like node, but the library situation is a disaster. I'll take monolithic, well designed, tested, and popular over a huge choice of one off libraries any day.

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#65

Post by InclinedPlane »

shadowmint wrote: post #15

Obviously if Node doesnt come 'batteries included' then you have to re-invent-from-scratch all the tools like package management, dependency management, MVC libraries, etc. That doesn't mean the community is amazing and wants to contribute! ...it means, that those features didn't exist, and someone had to do them (and yes, it's really great that they're all coming out open source, but it's not revolutionary) Any lang…

Obviously if linux doesn't come "batteries included" then you have to re-invent-from-scratch, or borrow, all the tools like compilers, web servers, package management, archive utilities, etc.

That doesn't mean the community is amazing and wants to contribute! ... it means, that those features didn't exist, and someone had to do them (and yes, it's really great that they're all coming out open source, but it's not revolutionary)

Any OS in that situation will have a strong initial growth as people port their favorite toys across.

I'd be much more interested to see the rate of change over-time, year by year.

...

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#66

Post by andypants »

aidos wrote: post #57

So, you want to compile LessCss. You go to npm and have a look at the options. Which package to use? assemble-less, baidu-less, buildr laessig, less, less-bal, less-clean, less-cluster, less-context-functions, less-features-connect, less-less, lesscompile, lesscw, lessup, lesswatcher, lessweb, style-compile, styles, watch-lessc, wepp Number of packages is far from a perfect measure of how much interesting and importa…

Or you could go to the official lesscss.org website and follow the very clear instructions to 'npm install -g less'.

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#67

Post by nkohari »

shadowmint wrote: post #15

Obviously if Node doesnt come 'batteries included' then you have to re-invent-from-scratch all the tools like package management, dependency management, MVC libraries, etc. That doesn't mean the community is amazing and wants to contribute! ...it means, that those features didn't exist, and someone had to do them (and yes, it's really great that they're all coming out open source, but it's not revolutionary) Any lang…

Package and dependency management (with npm) are two things that do come included with the node distribution these days. I would also argue that npm is one of the primary reasons why the node ecosystem is thriving in the way that it is.

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#68

Post by nkohari »

aidos wrote: post #57

So, you want to compile LessCss. You go to npm and have a look at the options. Which package to use? assemble-less, baidu-less, buildr laessig, less, less-bal, less-clean, less-cluster, less-context-functions, less-features-connect, less-less, lesscompile, lesscw, lessup, lesswatcher, lessweb, style-compile, styles, watch-lessc, wepp Number of packages is far from a perfect measure of how much interesting and importa…

Only the "less" package is the one you care about. The rest of them aren't alternatives, they're extensions. Isn't that... a good thing?

Re: The Node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

#70

Post by mtrimpe »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #53
MetaCosm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think it might be (changing the face of open source), I am not a part of the node.js community, but I do look at the way NPM works with a bit of jealousy. Born at the right time, defaulting to the "right" (according to me) license, with the right mix of tools that make it easy to publish and share -- and bluntly I hope other communities (like Erlang, one close to my heart) follow suit.

NPM is amazing. I used to use Python, which had the right idea with its modules but got so much of the implementation horribly wrong, and it has multiple package managers. Node, however, got modules right. Files and modules are in completely separate namespaces, and npm is a single package manager that "just works". The fact node isn't "batteries included" doesn't matter, because requiring modules is easy and depende…

Can anybody tell me what NPM does that e.g. Maven / CPAN / Gems e.a. don't?

I haven't seen anything in NPM so far that goes beyond Maven's capabilities so I'm really curious what NPM's big advantage is.

Post reply on HN