The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On • Hacker News Board

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#151

Post by bpatrianakos » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:41 PM UTC

subsystem wrote: post #121

chadillac83 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a reality that I guess I just naively assumed wasn't possible. This bit really kind of shook me. I've always thought of terrorism much like the author and the aforementioned poster you're replying to, a seemingly random and rare event. I'd never thought about what living in a society where it has become common place. I imagine it's a bit like when school shooting sprees line up in the States, each one on the…

Between foreign involvement, wars, social injustice, extremist religous groups, poor political system, right wing militants ploting to overthrow the government, access to arms, use of economic power, poverty and just being the largest western country, I'm actually suprised how little terrorism there is in the US.

Agreed. Last night my personal trainer who is otherwise the nicest guy ever said "why does this always happen here, these things happen here all the time" to which I replied "they happen almost every single day in other parts of the world, they barely ever happen here". He didn't believe me and proceeded to tell me about how "it's because we let all those god damn foreigners into the country". This is a really great guy and I had no idea he had these views but after hearing him say such an ignorant thing I too wonder why this doesn't happen here in the U.S. more often too.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#152

Post by chii » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:41 PM UTC

nraynaud wrote: post #145

mikestew wrote: post #139

I ran the prestigious marathon for the first time yesterday. I had a good race, set a new best time for recent years, and had a great experience. The only thing I would have been able to do yesterday was give blood, and that apparently wasn't needed. So there's nothing I can do, and fretting and worrying isn't going to change anything. Walking around scared isn't going to prevent anything. I sympathize with those aff…

read "Boston Massacre" memorial plate. The wording is interesting (at least for a foreigner).

what does it say on it, if you can recall?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#153

Post by chii » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:43 PM UTC

bconway wrote: post #147

sheri wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me offer a different opinion. There was a series of bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993. Thirteen different explosions in the span of a few hours across the city's landmarks. 250 people died. One of the blasts was in the Bombay stock exchange. This was on a Friday, and the stock exchange opened for business on Monday. This was a huge PR win for Mumbai, as the media talked about the resilience of the residents and the m…

Exactly this. Holding your head high is not a response to terrorism.

Then what is? What is the average citizen to do, other than refuse to be terrorized?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#154

Post by chii » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:47 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #149

gizmo686 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ask me to name a cryptographer, Scheier is by far the first one that comes to mind. Also, in my experience, his book, Applied Cryptography, is by far the most reccomended book for people new to crypto.

Applied Cryptography is a terrible reference. Please don't recommend it to programmers. Instead, recommend Practical Cryptography / Cryptography Engineering (they're the same book), which Schneier co-authored with Niels Fergusen. Update: I said "terrible book" but I'm going to start being more precise about this. It's not a terrible "book"; I enjoyed the hell out of it when I was a teenager. It's just misleading and…

Not having read (nor the time and inclination to read) the book, what is so bad about it, and what is the difference with the one you do recommend?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#155

Post by gyardley » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:50 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #36

rayiner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With modern technology, you don't need to sack New York to cause tremendous damage. People downplay the magnitude of 9/11, but as I noted somewhere else today, it involved more deaths than Pearl Harbor, and economic damage of almost $100 billion (without accounting for the economic impact on the stock market). Is a terrorist attack ten times stronger inconceivable? An attack on a nuclear power plant could cost into t…

You really think that could bring "The Fall of New Rome"? An attack a hundred times more deadly (which would be something like 3% of NYC's population dead, if my mental math does not betray me, or something a little less than 10x The Blitz.) than 9/11 would be a tragedy with only a few parallels in history. It would be an astronomically staggering blow to our economy. Hell, the mangled remains of the economy after su…

Given any economic disruption that affects food distribution, you'll see your barbarism right quick.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#156

Post by tptacek » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:51 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #154

tptacek wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applied Cryptography is a terrible reference. Please don't recommend it to programmers. Instead, recommend Practical Cryptography / Cryptography Engineering (they're the same book), which Schneier co-authored with Niels Fergusen. Update: I said "terrible book" but I'm going to start being more precise about this. It's not a terrible "book"; I enjoyed the hell out of it when I was a teenager. It's just misleading and…

Not having read (nor the time and inclination to read) the book, what is so bad about it, and what is the difference with the one you do recommend?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=639786

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#157

Post by chii » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:51 PM UTC

ErrantX wrote: post #100

anigbrowl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that, I didn't explain myself very well. What I'm suggesting is that people are (moderately) well aware of the relative probabilities, but fear a predictable lack of control. This is entirely rational; you can be scared of something without necessarily expecting it to happen. so to take the driving example, it's very possible that you could be hit without warning, but you can also conceive of many situat…

Plenty of people survive plane accidents; in fact if you are involved in a plane accident in the US you have a greater than 90% chance of surviving. Which highlights the point; it is fear that drives your viewpoint (that car accidents are preferable plane crashes) rather than statistics :) EDIT: I don't have my copy of Risk to hand, but from memory the numbers work out something like.. probability of being in an air…

I m not sure people can so freely control their emotional responses - their prefrontal cortex might tell them such and such an event is pretty rare and low risk, but their lizard brain will pretty much override that. Unless you have disciplined training, i doubt you can truly get rid of that irrational fear of certain things.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#158

Post by rayiner » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:55 PM UTC

riggins wrote: post #146

rayiner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With modern technology, you don't need to sack New York to cause tremendous damage. People downplay the magnitude of 9/11, but as I noted somewhere else today, it involved more deaths than Pearl Harbor, and economic damage of almost $100 billion (without accounting for the economic impact on the stock market). Is a terrorist attack ten times stronger inconceivable? An attack on a nuclear power plant could cost into t…

"People downplay the magnitude of 9/11, but as I noted somewhere else today, it involved more deaths than Pearl Harbor" that's one point of reference. Here a different point of reference. It involved about 1/10 the number of annual automobile accident deaths.

Twice as many people die every year from car accidents than murders. I suppose its pointless to spend all those police resources fighting that?

Human beings are not automotons.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#159

Post by eli_gottlieb » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:56 PM UTC

sheri wrote: post #80

untog wrote: post #8

It was a great moment of national pride for me (which are rare in the UK) in the wake of the 7/7/2005 bombings. People were back on the Tube and buses the next day, refusing to allow their lives to be disrupted further. I've always taken solace from those people- I hope that the people of Boston can be equally inspiring.

Let me offer a different opinion. There was a series of bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993. Thirteen different explosions in the span of a few hours across the city's landmarks. 250 people died. One of the blasts was in the Bombay stock exchange. This was on a Friday, and the stock exchange opened for business on Monday. This was a huge PR win for Mumbai, as the media talked about the resilience of the residents and the m…

That's the mood regarding these things in Israel, too, and I think especially among us Gen Y types in most countries.

We're too young to remember a time when terrorist attacks and school shootings weren't regular occurrences. We carry on rationally because we've seen the stupid crap people do when carried away by their emotional reactions to terrorism. That doesn't mean we don't dearly wish it would stop.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#160

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Apr 16, 2013, 1:57 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #49

timr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#citationneeded Really now. I don't need to go much beyond the evening news to know that people spend a lot of time being afraid of things that aren't likely to happen. (What don't you know about your toothbrush that could kill you? Probably very little.) Your model of humanity is one that's much more rational and thoughtful than what I've come to expect from my neighbors. Nobody is scared of a decline in social stab…

Listen to Obama's speech on the issue. It's targeted to calm the average American. Listen to the word he uses to characterize the administration's response: justice. What does "justice" mean in this context? It means nothing other than the government's response to activity that threatens social stability and psychologically remedy the injuries created by actions that upset social stability.

What does the War in Iraq or having to remove one's shoes before boarding an aircraft have to do with justice?

I don't think anyone is making the argument that there should be no justice. Prosecuting the criminals who commit murder for the purpose of terrorism is clearly a "no reasonable person could disagree" sort of a thing.

But the question remains, how is justice won? In theory we could impose martial law and suspend elections, or permanently shut all the roads and trains and prohibit gatherings of more than five people in the same place, or nuke the entire middle east. Perhaps doing those things could bring justice to more terrorists.

Well before we reach that point, we come to a line we should not cross. We come to a choice that will cost us more of our humanity than it gains us in justice. And whipping the public into a frenzy is how popular support for crossing the line we should not cross is manufactured.