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The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#121

Post by subsystem »

chadillac83 wrote: post #95
sheri wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me offer a different opinion. There was a series of bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993. Thirteen different explosions in the span of a few hours across the city's landmarks. 250 people died. One of the blasts was in the Bombay stock exchange. This was on a Friday, and the stock exchange opened for business on Monday. This was a huge PR win for Mumbai, as the media talked about the resilience of the residents and the m…

That is a reality that I guess I just naively assumed wasn't possible. This bit really kind of shook me. I've always thought of terrorism much like the author and the aforementioned poster you're replying to, a seemingly random and rare event. I'd never thought about what living in a society where it has become common place. I imagine it's a bit like when school shooting sprees line up in the States, each one on the…

Between foreign involvement, wars, social injustice, extremist religous groups, poor political system, right wing militants ploting to overthrow the government, access to arms, use of economic power, poverty and just being the largest western country, I'm actually suprised how little terrorism there is in the US.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#122

Post by ygra »

artsrc wrote: post #69
DanBC wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not explain why people stopped flying after 9/11. People are terrible at estimating risk.

I flew less after 9/11 because it made rational sense to do so. Before I could turn up at the airport 10 minutes before my plane took off and go the the gate and check in. After 9/11 I was in a queue for ages and had to arrive really early. So it was quicker to just drive.

Also deadlier.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#123

Post by simonbarker87 »

untog wrote: post #8

It was a great moment of national pride for me (which are rare in the UK) in the wake of the 7/7/2005 bombings. People were back on the Tube and buses the next day, refusing to allow their lives to be disrupted further. I've always taken solace from those people- I hope that the people of Boston can be equally inspiring.

I travelled through London the next day on the tube and noticed two things:

1. A HUGE police presence, like nothing I've ever seen anywhere - that day it was the safest city in the world. 2. It was quiet, yes people were carrying on but it wasn't like the London you expect, people from outside the city were definitely steering clear.

One thing to remember is that London (and the UK) is "used" to terrorist attacks from years of the IRA. Back in those days it was a bit different as they generally gave a warning but still, I think over time it has built up a resilience.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#124

Post by MichaelApproved »

markdown wrote: post #120
MichaelApproved wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ever wonder why extremists haven't bombed the Cook Islands" It's nice to be a country like the Cook Islands. You're surrounded by a vast ocean that makes it very difficult to attack. Your interests are also protected other, larger nations, so you don't have to do any "dirty work" to protect them. You also don't have to spend tons of money on a military and can rely on treaties with other countries to provide your de…

You know that before any attack whatsoever, there has to be a motive, right? South Africa meets your definition of a targetable country. Why isn't it attacked by terrorists?

This is going off track. My original argument is:

1) The US is a target. 2) The reason it's a target is not what I'm debating. 3) Terrorists are not having trouble attacking the US because they are dumb, as the author stated. 4) Terrorists are experimenting with different ways to attack the US and are evolving. 5) The author of the article is mistaking these experiments with stupidity. 6) The ocean is an obstacle that won't protect the US forever.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#125

Post by venomsnake »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #112
venomsnake wrote: post #93

That is refreshingly sane. Sadly I fear that there will be total overreaction by the government and the media. The only proper reaction is take care of the survivors, bring the responsible to justice and then cry for the dead. Do not assassinate them - bringing them in chains in court is much more humiliating.

"bring the responsible to justice" Probably the most difficult parts of this will be to define who is responsible and what exactly constitutes as justice.

Tried in a federal court with the full rights and protections defined by the US constitution etc etc.

Killing them like osama, blasting them with a drone or detaining them in gitmo means the terrorist have won, because they have dragged the system down to their own level.

Also it still may be not an act of terror. Just some wackos that decide it is fun to blow stuff up. They don't have a need for a political agenda or ideology to do stuff like that.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#126

Post by dutchbrit »

GeorgeTirebiter wrote: post #101
dutchbrit wrote: post #58

Bruce mentions that one of the reasons why people should stay calm is that terrorists are dumb. However, this could be the actions of a new Unabomber (let us hope it isn't), who managed to go on a bombing streak for 18 years without being caught. It's really too early to start making assumptions. I say, don't keep calm and carry on, take this as an example that life can end any second, just like that, out of nowhere.…

You are aware that "we" basically created the Unabomber, yes? http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2000/06/chase.ht...

Created or not, it's still plausible that this could happen again.

Good read btw!

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#127

Post by gitmothrow »

afhof wrote: post #19

Its too bad that most people don't have a basic appreciation of statistics or probability. Its too bad Schneier only spends a tiny paragraph on it: "Even though this will be in the news for weeks, we should recognize this for what it is: a rare event". The chance that a person will die from a bombing, or be shot, or their plane crash, or a hurricane kill them is so small that there is almost NO reason to be afraid of…

People have an expectation that they could die from heart disease or cancer at some point. They have an expectation that they could die in a car crash when driving. They have an expectation that they could be killed in a plane crash when flying.

They have no expectation that they and their friends will suddenly have their legs blown off and bleed out on the street while enjoying a public social event.

That is what makes terrorism different than those situations you highlighted. The fear in the back of you head while doing mundane things.

This isn't complicated. If I wanted comments like yours, I would go to reddit.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#128

Post by epo »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #108
epo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said "as a collective group", the smartness of the leaders is averaged down by the low quality of the foot soldiers who actually decide to die for the cause. It is hard to find willing terrorists normally , it becomes easier if you provide your enemies with daily motivation and determination. As others have mentioned, and excluding home grown lunacy, it is easy to avoid terrorism, just don't occupy other countries…

"the smartness of the leaders is averaged down by the low quality of the foot soldiers who actually decide to die for the cause." Deciding to die for a cause does not make you stupid. The 9/11 attackers were intelligent enough to pilot a commercial aircraft. There are also many patriots who love their country and have been willing to die for it. WW II Japanese fighter pilots are a classic example. I wouldn't call tho…

It doesn't make you stupid but it is easier to find and convince stupid people to go out and die than it is to find and convince smart people to do the same thing, many suicide bombers are found to be mentally retarded and/or highly suggestible.

The Japanese example is a, ahem, yellow herring, that was during wartime when both sides had formally declared war. Wartime patriotism (and of course the necessity to obey military orders) makes smart people obliged to do stupid things, they'd have been shot if they refused, in fact that is a thoroughly poor counter-example.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#129

Post by MichaelApproved »

venomsnake wrote: post #125
MichaelApproved wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"bring the responsible to justice" Probably the most difficult parts of this will be to define who is responsible and what exactly constitutes as justice.

Tried in a federal court with the full rights and protections defined by the US constitution etc etc. Killing them like osama, blasting them with a drone or detaining them in gitmo means the terrorist have won, because they have dragged the system down to their own level. Also it still may be not an act of terror. Just some wackos that decide it is fun to blow stuff up. They don't have a need for a political agenda o…

"Killing them like osama[...] means the terrorist have won,"

I don't understand the trouble you have with the Osama situation. The US attempted to apprehend Osama so they could bring him to justice but he resisted and was shot to death. How would you have handled that situation?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#130

Post by emiliobumachar »

fmkamchatka wrote: post #42
afhof wrote: post #19

Its too bad that most people don't have a basic appreciation of statistics or probability. Its too bad Schneier only spends a tiny paragraph on it: "Even though this will be in the news for weeks, we should recognize this for what it is: a rare event". The chance that a person will die from a bombing, or be shot, or their plane crash, or a hurricane kill them is so small that there is almost NO reason to be afraid of…

I don't think it's a matter of statistics or probability: it's just easier said when you're not directly affected by the events. For me personally, I completely agree when reading this article but I'm here, on the west coast, not feeling threatened directly and knowing my friends are now safe. But what if you were passing the finish line as these devices exploded. You might well be the most rationale person in the wo…

I agree with you that refusing to be terrorized is borderline impossible for the people who got hurt in the blast or their closest family and friends. The article is aimed at the rest, the majority who can potentially either panick or just carry on.
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