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The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#21

Post by dpeck »

untog wrote: post #8

It was a great moment of national pride for me (which are rare in the UK) in the wake of the 7/7/2005 bombings. People were back on the Tube and buses the next day, refusing to allow their lives to be disrupted further. I've always taken solace from those people- I hope that the people of Boston can be equally inspiring.

The British resolve is something that those of us across the pond seem to have lost, or perhaps it is something that was developed in the British people during the terrible days of WW1 and WW2.

We here tend to work more of a spirit of freak-outery and cynicism. And as much as it annoys me, I think its more a symptom of how relatively little most of us and our ancestors have had to worry about in the US as much of our history was as a mostly rural international backwater that quickly transitioned quickly to a world power with oceans and, almost always, peaceful neighbors on its borders.

Which is something to be thankful for, even if it has led to a fairly weak resolve.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#22

Post by rayiner »

cynicalkane wrote: post #15
rayiner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlighten me.

The Germans were the border of the nation of Rome from 100 BC until the Empire fell. They once slaughtered an entire Republic field army--and remember the Republic's army consisted of most of Rome's young, able-bodied citizens. They defeated Augustus, among other emperors, and eventually sacked Rome. Twice. Before making the whole thing collapse. So, small difference.

So because we're geographically isolated, there is nothing to worry about? Modern technology doesn't change the circumstances any?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#23

Post by icambron »

untog wrote: post #8

It was a great moment of national pride for me (which are rare in the UK) in the wake of the 7/7/2005 bombings. People were back on the Tube and buses the next day, refusing to allow their lives to be disrupted further. I've always taken solace from those people- I hope that the people of Boston can be equally inspiring.

I'm actually incredibly confident in Boston on this count. People here are scared and angry, but the reactions here have been brave and largely rational. Nobody's going to start avoiding the Back Bay or staying away from the subway, or on their guard with their neighbors.

I'm less confident in this country's political leadership.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#24

Post by rayiner »

afhof wrote: post #19

Its too bad that most people don't have a basic appreciation of statistics or probability. Its too bad Schneier only spends a tiny paragraph on it: "Even though this will be in the news for weeks, we should recognize this for what it is: a rare event". The chance that a person will die from a bombing, or be shot, or their plane crash, or a hurricane kill them is so small that there is almost NO reason to be afraid of…

People don't react to terrorism because they're afraid of being blown up personally. They do it because they're afraid of the precedent that might be set by not responding.

It's statistically unlikely that you'll be the victim of gang violence, but does that mean it's irrational prosecute and punish gang members? No, because the activity threatens social stability vastly out of proportion with the probability of any given person being victim to it. In general, we punish crimes not because it's likely that we'll be the victims of one, but because if we don't the problem might grow out of hand and undermine civil order.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#25

Post by cynicalkane »

rayiner wrote: post #22
cynicalkane wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Germans were the border of the nation of Rome from 100 BC until the Empire fell. They once slaughtered an entire Republic field army--and remember the Republic's army consisted of most of Rome's young, able-bodied citizens. They defeated Augustus, among other emperors, and eventually sacked Rome. Twice. Before making the whole thing collapse. So, small difference.

So because we're geographically isolated, there is nothing to worry about? Modern technology doesn't change the circumstances any?

The point I'm trying to make is the differences between terrorists and invading Germans are all of them. You might as well compare terrorists to the Irish potato famine.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#26

Post by rayiner »

cynicalkane wrote: post #25
rayiner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because we're geographically isolated, there is nothing to worry about? Modern technology doesn't change the circumstances any?

The point I'm trying to make is the differences between terrorists and invading Germans are all of them. You might as well compare terrorists to the Irish potato famine.

My point isn't that islamic terrorists are like Germans. It's that Schneier's comment smacks of an inability to contemplate that anything bad could happen to the U.S., much like I imagine the attitude was in Rome before Germans proved them wrong.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#27

Post by jlgreco »

rayiner wrote: post #22
cynicalkane wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Germans were the border of the nation of Rome from 100 BC until the Empire fell. They once slaughtered an entire Republic field army--and remember the Republic's army consisted of most of Rome's young, able-bodied citizens. They defeated Augustus, among other emperors, and eventually sacked Rome. Twice. Before making the whole thing collapse. So, small difference.

So because we're geographically isolated, there is nothing to worry about? Modern technology doesn't change the circumstances any?

What exactly are you envisioning here? If not a sacking of the country by terrorist hoards, what exactly are you proposing the parallels between the fall of Rome and our modern society will be?

I can envision terrorist attacks doing major irreversible damage to our society, but only through the fear, spiraling out of control, that they have the potential to cause. A fear so excessive that it could figuratively drive our society off the cliffs of Saipan.

Presumably (since you appear to be advocating fear, and since it would be plainly idiotic to suggest a sacking is immenent) you are suggesting a different mechanism.

So what is this mechanism?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#28

Post by mladenkovacevic »

rayiner wrote: post #2

"Terrorism, even the terrorism of radical Islamists and right-wing extremists and lone actors all put together, is not an 'existential threat' against our nation. Even the events of 9/11, as horrific as they were, didn't do existential damage to our nation. Our society is more robust than it might seem from watching the news. We need to start acting that way." I wonder if there were people saying that to Romans about…

If anyone's experiencing Rome's fate as a result of Islamic extremist activity it's the countries in the middle east we've chosen as a battlefield against terrorism. In fact it's worse than Rome because on one side you've got the American troops and drones, while on the other side you've got suicide bombers. Basically death and destruction at every turn.

If anyone's going to end up sacking and pillaging America it'll be American corporate greed and not extremists. Now there's some barbarian hordes you should be watching out for.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#29

Post by sammyo »

untog wrote: post #8

It was a great moment of national pride for me (which are rare in the UK) in the wake of the 7/7/2005 bombings. People were back on the Tube and buses the next day, refusing to allow their lives to be disrupted further. I've always taken solace from those people- I hope that the people of Boston can be equally inspiring.

I was two blocks away from the bombing for a couple hours and no one was panicking, sad perhaps but quite calm.
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