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An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

iab.net

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Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#21

Post by pasbesoin »

babarock wrote: post #9

It seems to me that this letter seems to care about everyone ("ad-supported small businesses", "advertisers", "website owners", "Ad networks", "small publishers") except for the one who matters the most: The User. I'm not going to say what Mozilla should or shouldn't do in this case. They know better, and more importantly, they are free to do what they want. I just want to point out to IAB, whoever they are, that if…

I would permit some advertising, if 1) It didn't "move around" and try to distract me; 2) It wasn't a potential vector for malicious technical endeavors (meaning, as opposed to advertisements for crap/exploitative products).

Every time I read about another ad network vector for malicious behavior, my current position is reinforced. I feel some guilt about this, with respect to sites I like, but it doesn't override my need for "safe computing".

So... if you want your advertising to get onto my system, improve your fucking product!

Back when "the Web was young", I permitted advertising, and I actually encountered a number of interesting and useful products via it. That was also a time when the "Web" community was a lot smaller, and particularly technology-oriented advertising has a significantly higher chance of being on-target with respect at least to me as audience.

Then ads starting moving, shouting, and playing bad sets. And then came the malware. That was it, for me.

Clean up your act, and I might let you back.

Sooner or later, someone is going to figure this out.

Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#22

Post by amitparikh »

thirdstation wrote: post #18
babarock wrote: post #9

It seems to me that this letter seems to care about everyone ("ad-supported small businesses", "advertisers", "website owners", "Ad networks", "small publishers") except for the one who matters the most: The User. I'm not going to say what Mozilla should or shouldn't do in this case. They know better, and more importantly, they are free to do what they want. I just want to point out to IAB, whoever they are, that if…

They did include you: > and the millions of consumers who enjoy the diversity of content and services the internet provides (Ignore the small-i internet typo). Do they mean to suggest that millions of consumers enjoy advertising? Thank you for thinking of me IAB!

I don't think they mean to suggest that all users "enjoy" advertising, but it IS a reality of the current state of Internet monetization economics that advertising plays a large role in allowing, in IAB's words, the "long tail" of the web to operate in the near-term and grow in the long-term.

Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#23

Post by jccalhoun »

"Mozilla, if you act on your plan to block third-party cookies in your Firefox browser, thousands of ad-supported small businesses like us may be forced to close."

Yes, small businesses. Like the ones the people on your board of directors work for: https://www.iab.net/about_the_iab/iab_board like IDG, NBC Universal, Ziff Davis, Microsoft, New York Times, Weather Channel, Facebook, Forbes, Conde Nast, AOL, and pretty much all the most popular sites in the english-speaking part of the internet...

Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#24

Post by tomjen3 »

rgbrgb wrote: post #4
Millennium wrote: post #2

Even a 1% success rate is considered phenomenal in the advertising world, and as annoying as the ads became, it is true that tracking and targeting increased the value of ad impressions significantly when they were first introduced. The same is true of annoyances: popups, audio, and such: they simply worked. But the people are speaking out. They don't want to be tracked by marketers, and they have been putting consid…

The unfortunate truth is that tracking and individual targeting improves CTR. Advertisers pay for clicks. Until someone comes up with a more profitable metric, they're not going to stop tracking.

Not really. Facebook knows more about me than the STASI did about most of its citizens.

Yet the best ads they can show me are for dating sites -- something I am not that interested in, and certainly wouldn't pay for -- and totally ignore all my likes. If marketeers had a single brain cell then the ads on my facebook page would be covered in geeky offers, interesting books, computer hardware, etc.

It is the same with Google. A couple of weeks after I signed the papers for my new appartment I got a ton of ads for the same (crappy) appartment site -- even though I didn't need two appartments, I needed cheap paint and a moving van.

I am considering taking a weekend or so and writing a piece of software that can do it better than the current crop of marketeers, because they are as useless as Dilberts boss.

Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#25

Post by RRRA »

So advertisers get upset and want Mozilla to support user spying for better targeted ads?! That doesn't sound cool, only advertisers are signing this. Can't they have ads targeted by clientele of the site? No need to track people for that.

Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#26

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

elehack wrote: post #7

It doesn't speak well that the first item of their FAQ is patently false. > Q. What is Mozilla doing that is causing concern? > A. On February 25, 2013, Mozilla announced intentions to block all third-party cookies by default in upcoming releases of its Firefox browser. Only first-party cookies would be allowed. No, they are not blocking all third-party cookies by default. They are blocking all third-party cookies fr…

That FAQ is full of misinformation and poor writing. The second point ("What is a cookie?") includes:

"To personalize your web browsing experience and to make the Internet work operationally,"

Make it work 'operationally' as opposed to ...? Anyway, as we all know, cookies aren't a requirement for the Web to work, let alone the Internet.

"websites you visit"

Correction: some websites ...

"place (or allow their approved partners to place)"

No mention that 'approved partner' is utterly meaningless

"a small harmless file, called a "cookie", in your browser."

Congratulations - apart from the slightly strange use of the word 'in', this is correct

"Cookies contain numbers and letters that identify your web browser, but not you personally."

Just utterly wrong

It does not contain your name, address phone, email or other information that can personally identify you."

Well, 'it' could, of course, so another meaningless statement

"Companies use cookies to learn more about user interests through users’ web browsing activities and to remember the preferences you set on their sites, such as the language you like to read, the last items you purchased, and the resolution at which you likes (sic) to watch videos."

"you likes" - seriously? Is this organisation just a kid in his bedroom?

"For example, a cookie can tell a website that you’re a repeat visitor, and then can let the site fill in your username for you."

As, of course, can your browser.

The fact that these people obviously have very little understanding of the issues they're talking about just convinces me we need responsible organisations like Mozilla to help prevent them from exposing us to privacy and security risks.

Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#28

Post by cpeterso »

khuey wrote: post #5
richardwhiuk wrote: post #3

Safari already does this in desktop and mobile browsers - what's the big deal?

The big deal is that Safari desktop has no users, and people are still struggling to monetize ads on mobile where Safari has users.

Are advertisers struggling to monetize mobile ads because they don't realize iOS is blocking their third-party cookies?

Re: An Open Letter To Mozilla Corporation

#29

Post by vy8vWJlco »

amitparikh wrote: post #22
thirdstation wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did include you: > and the millions of consumers who enjoy the diversity of content and services the internet provides (Ignore the small-i internet typo). Do they mean to suggest that millions of consumers enjoy advertising? Thank you for thinking of me IAB!

I don't think they mean to suggest that all users "enjoy" advertising, but it IS a reality of the current state of Internet monetization economics that advertising plays a large role in allowing, in IAB's words, the "long tail" of the web to operate in the near-term and grow in the long-term.

I suspect that if the web were less ad-oriented, native software would experience a boon, which I think would have a number of interesting and positive effects on the developer/programmer/hacker community.
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