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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

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Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#411

Post by ditojim »

rthomas6 wrote: post #305
gitmothrow wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear future generations, Clueless middle class Western programmers on Hacker News believed everything some guy in prion said and thought they understood national security realities better than the president of the US. And they made a bunch of brave comments. Much karma was exchanged. Love, 2013

"Dear 2013, Nostalgia tells me that your time was a simpler time, when people cared about politics/kids had morals/people were nicer. Also I learned in history class that Barack Obama was a great president who took the first steps toward universal healthcare. They talked about Guantanamo Bay for part of one day. The necessities of war are horrible sometimes; too bad they had to do that." Seriously though, this is jus…

our version of universal healthcare isn't that impressive..

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#412

Post by [deleted] »

tibbon wrote: post #330

I make no apologies for Obama- he should have closed Gitmo. Yet, there's one tiny tiny possibility that I have considered for why he hasn't. Before becoming president, you make promises, have goals, and overall think you know what you're going to do on day one. However, after inauguration you go for your first big debriefing with the CIA, FBI, etc... The things you learn there completely change the course what you wa…

[deleted]

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#413

Post by vxNsr »

pavanky wrote: post #278
vxNsr wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice! Gandhi also preached and practiced something called "Peaceful Protest" this guy is accused of "associating with"/guarding UBL.

Firstly, Osama (not Usama) Bil Laden. Secondly, 11 years without trial or even a concrete charge against "an accused terrorist" would be something USA and its citizens would be appalled about if Russia or China did so to their "terrorists". Thirdly, I am against hunger strikes when they can be avoided. Simply because they can turn political and in turn can be abused. Gandhi did abuse it a bit. Indian politicians and…

Actually in most official Documents he's known as Usama Bin Laden thus UBL (Also he's referred to that way throughout ZDT, if you want a cultural reference)

He's not just an accused terrorist, he's a enemy combatant and a POW, totally different ball game. And while the US might be "appalled if Russia or China did it," it would be for political reasons (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) and not ethical (reasons).

Finally, this thread has gone on far enough, I'm stepping out. I will not be replying to anymore posts.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#414

Post by smokinjoe »

gamblor956 wrote: post #387
smokinjoe wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, throwaway so I don't get called a fascist nazi or whatever. Don't worry, I just consider you a coward for that. If you seriously want to call someone out, do it from your account and stand by your words.

(I'm not gitmothrow.) I did that back during the Scwartz debates on HN, right after he died, using my primary account, which had thousands of karma at the time. Within a week after the incident, most of HN had calmed down and was saying the same things I had been saying. But by that point my account had been super-ultra-hellbanned. I couldn't even post. It wasn't until another user's complaint about being hellbanned…

I understand that concept, except that the tone that was taken in his post and subsequent response to mine was just made to be snide. Instead of making an opinion and standing by it (which I would gladly upvote even if gray and it disagreed with my own personal opinion), he attacks the knowledge of a commenter via a generalization.

Making anonymous statements is essential in some situations, but in my personal opinion, I find it completely unnecessary in this particular one. If they had just gone with paragraph 1 and 3, then it'd be a perfectly fine comment. Instead it has a decidedly different feel and attitude which is then 'shielded' via a throwaway.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#415

Post by riggins »

vansteen wrote: post #342
berntb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an obvious analysis: The idea with terrorism against democracies is to scare the living daylight out of voters in a country. The politicians in those democracies want to win the next election do everything to stop the terror. Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book -- UK, Germany, Israel, Spain, USA, etc. It is a reaction built into democracy, if you…

"Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book -- UK, Germany, Israel, Spain, USA, etc." ... Can you precise? I can talk about something I know. I'm french. France got problem with islamic terrorism in the 90's. France is having problem with terrorism for the last 10 years. France has done two wars in the last 3 years (Lybia, Mali and still do stuff in Afganistan).…

"I'm french.... My country is not the best country in the world but we did not end up with some terrible thing like Guantanamo"

Let me preface this by saying I'm a big fan of France. In fact, I think France was a good ally recommending caution with Iraq (precisely because they had the most recent experience with fighting a counter-insurgency in an Arab country).

But I take exception with your claim that France didn't end up with Gitmo.

Read 'A Savage War of Peace: Algeria 1954-1962'. France pretty much invented torturing arab terrorists.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#416

Post by vpeters25 »

pixelcort wrote: post #8

With this story of Guantanamo Bay and the story of children born into prison camps in North Korea, as a mere software engineer, it makes me feel hopeless as to how to help.

Tell me about it, I grew up in Pinochet's Chile and it worries me deeply how our government is ignoring the constitution and bullying its way around the same way Pinochet did back in the 80's.

With its treatment of gitmo detainees and persecution of wikileaks' Julian Assange, the US is lowering itself to the constitutional level of a run-of-the-mill banana republic.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#417

Post by smokinjoe »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #374
smokinjoe wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not being brave, it's being responsible for your own actions. If you didn't use a throwaway, I'm sure you'd also do a much better job at making your comment a little more eloquent instead of just aggressive and angry. Posting with a throwaway shows me that you probably don't even 100% believe what you just said.

This is stupid. There are plenty of reasons to post potentially controversial things anonymously, the same reasons against placing a darwin-fish on your car in overly religious regions. None of which have to do with cowardice.

I absolutely agree there are reasons, however this situation has someone acting more belligerent than rational. I personally find hiding anonymously when making such aggressive comments cowardly.

There was a perfectly fine point buried in his original comment, and I personally believe if he had posted with their own account, then they would have taken the time to proof-read and remove the unnecessary emotion and ire from the comment.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#418

Post by enraged_camel »

pasbesoin wrote: post #407
Camillo wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Obama was counting on many people not to understand politics when he chose to make promises on things he wouldn't have the power to change.

Especially during his 2008 campaign, as much as (or more so, parsing the details of his language) making specific, topical promises, Obama... "preached" and promised to be an advocate . I think that as much as in specific deliverables, "the Left" feels rather thoroughly betrayed, on that front. In this specific instance, he should have called Congress out on their behavior. People understand real compromise. They als…

Obama did call Congress out on their behavior. Openly, publicly and many times.

It accomplished absolutely nothing.

Look, when you have an entrenched party, backed up by the ultra-rich, that has sworn to do anything in its power to make sure you fail, there's not much you can do, even if you are the President of the United States.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#419

Post by vpeters25 »

goggles99 wrote: post #181

What did you expect him to say? I am guilty of contributing to terrorism and the purposeful killing of innocent woman and children civilians? I like how everyone here takes this guys word for everything. It is all a government conspiracy that has put him in there. After all, the US government likes to round up random people around the world and put them in max security detainment as kind of a boredom fighting game ri…

If he is guilty then why hasn't he been tried? 11 years is an awful lot of time for the prosecution to get their case together.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#420

Post by vxNsr »

ucee054 wrote: post #256
vxNsr wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In times of war it is guilty until proven innocent, did you take a look at the UN link? Two powers who are "at War" can take anyone into custody that they think is "aid and abetting the enemy" and they do not have to release them until the war ends. In times of war most civil liberties are suspended, we can discuss the fairness or "rightness" of that, but until we can all calm down and talk instead of hit that's the…

The USGov are not applying the POW rules to the Guantanamo prisoners otherwise they'd have more legal protections. That's why the Bushies had to dream up the "enemy combatant" legal limbo in order to be able to abuse the prisoners like this. Even under "war rules" these prisoners should be dealt with in a better way. And "Guilty until proven innocent?" Really? Idiot.

Even so Enemy combatant has a lot of the same laws as POWs.

It's possible they should be treated better but this guy is a known bodyguard of UBL[1] and has lied consistently to everyone [1] so it's not clear how he's being treated (remember this is a Oped about politics - anything goes).

I'll ignore the last line as you've said nothing of substance.

[1]http://projects.nytimes.com/guantanamo/detainees/43-samir-na...

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