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Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

penny-arcade.com

21–30 of 177 posts

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#21
post #11

Using "white" as a casual negative adjective is weak. I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. We're all big boys. But seeing it used as a term of self-hatred leaves me feeling more than a little disgusted.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it self-hatred, just as it's reasonable for many males to "hate" the male gender. I have serious issues with the social construct of gender, with its inculcation of aggression/subordination and bizarre attitudes, dress codes, etc. As a male, it's acceptable for me to "hate" maleness, and I think that's better than leaving only females to dismantle patriarchy.

(Then again, in the sense that I dislike the odd parts of me which have been bent by race and gender, and actively wish them to disappear, maybe there is something to calling it "self-hate". But it's like the self-hate of a novice, who wishes to transcend their current inability.)

So hopefully we might accept that race is a similar, complicated -ism, and it's fine to be a "race traitor" or gender traitor if yours dominates.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#22
post #6

I really, truly, honestly believe that above 9 hours a day for an extended period of time actually ends up hurting your development efforts. You want developers who come into work and WORK. Not work a little, check a little HN, work a little, eat, check a little Reddit. Living at work forces coping mechanisms like this on you because you really only have a finite amount of creative attention.

You'll find no disagreement anywhere on that point. The nature of the games industry is not based on any rational basis - the overwork is cultural, deeply ingrained, and completely irrational.

People who are overworked for extended periods have negative productivity - you can't throw a rock without hitting a dozen studies that have proven this decade after decade.

This sort of management and process is pure cargo cult - this is the way blockbusters have been made since ages past, so this is the way blockbusters will continue to be made, even if it is woefully inefficient and costs more than a saner attitude about work.

For a long time the regular non-game software industry was a lot like this also, except unlike the games industry there wasn't a long enough lineup of impressionable, desperate young graduates waiting to be drawn and quartered by the executioner inside. Nothing meaningful will change until the supply of people willing to take on this horrible system dries up.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#24
post #3

As a 30-year old childless white man who left the games industry after a short 8 months in order to get married and spend time with my spouse, I can tell you that the assessment is fairly spot on. If you weren't putting in 12 hours daily, something was wrong with you and it was 'bad for team morale'. I was also pretty horribly underpaid, as evidenced by raising my salary over 200% by leaving. Seems to me the 'white'…

Not really. That kind of environment leads to a lot of prejudiced thinking. You see it happen in the rest of tech, too: people who have the screws twisted on them, willingly or not, cope one way or another... and most people cope by reinforcing their self-esteem with delusions of superiority. That's one reason why we have religious wars over operating systems and programming languages and tool sets that you don't see…

Er, not saying there isn't a cost incurred (or, rather, a potential gain ignored) by having a homogenous environment, but...

and most people cope by reinforcing their self-esteem with delusions of superiority

That I would like to see a source on.

EDIT:

I will go ahead and say that the article makes the point that such labor has a 'dehumanizing' effect... and in such condition, bonds between people in the same situation who aren't part of the cause are usually strengthened, in my experience.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#25
post #9

Most trendy, fashionable and 'glamorous' jobs are like this. A lot of suckers want to get into the field, and the employers know this. I know people who work in haute-couture shops. They typically clock in 14+ hours per day, and regularly work insane hours on the weekend. The weeks leading up to a fashion show / collection are brutal. These people have years of experience and managerial responsibilities, yet their sa…

Similarly, a rather sad thing about the magazine publishing industry (especially fashion) still is that many workers are unpaid (except, perhaps, expenses) interns for years at a time fighting to get a tiny number of paid jobs. We even see the intern thing in our own tech industry: http://techcitynews.com/2013/04/08/were-hiring-join-our-team... I think this article goes a way to answer why young people dominate the g…

The amusing thing here is bunch of unpaid interns living on ramen, renting a two bedroom flat for a collective of four, work 12 hours a day writing elaborate articles on luxury, fashion and festive lifestyle.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#26
post #11

Using "white" as a casual negative adjective is weak. I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. We're all big boys. But seeing it used as a term of self-hatred leaves me feeling more than a little disgusted.

> I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. Did you just say it's respectable to hate on white people?

To clear up any misunderstanding: Is it ever acceptable to have feelings of anger and hatred? Yes, surely. There are situations in life that demand that response. Are whites the only acceptable target? Surely not.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#27

As someone with 5 years experience in the industry, this article is spot on the money for everything I experienced. It's a huge problem, both by discriminating against people unwilling or unable to put in ridiculous hours, and by driving away those talented women and men who are finally becoming experienced experts when they become so burned out they have to leave the industry. I worked in games for 5 years. I no lon…

I'm a software engineering student about to start an internship(Paid, 4 months) at a major game studio. I am considering applying for a job once I complete the internship if everything goes well. I would like to see if the studio where I will work has a decent workflow. If not I would be willing to tough it out as a generalist programmer while trying to apply to other jobs that interest me in another industry. The id…

It seems pretty clear that you'll be working long hours for low pay. If the work is satisfying enough for you to accept those tradeoffs, go for it. But if you are a decent developer you should be able to find better pay and less hours at practically any other job.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#28

As someone with 5 years experience in the industry, this article is spot on the money for everything I experienced. It's a huge problem, both by discriminating against people unwilling or unable to put in ridiculous hours, and by driving away those talented women and men who are finally becoming experienced experts when they become so burned out they have to leave the industry. I worked in games for 5 years. I no lon…

I'm a software engineering student about to start an internship(Paid, 4 months) at a major game studio. I am considering applying for a job once I complete the internship if everything goes well. I would like to see if the studio where I will work has a decent workflow. If not I would be willing to tough it out as a generalist programmer while trying to apply to other jobs that interest me in another industry. The id…

For some perspective: I had a good 5 years, I had a lot of fun, and I don't regret it. Whilst I will complain strongly about a lot of the things wrong in the industry, the truth is that I made a good wage (compared to most of my non software-developer friends), got to do some cool stuff, and had a good time doing it. For the most part, the industry is getting better and it's not near the level it used to be.

If you go into it with your eyes open and don't let yourself get pushed around, consciously or otherwise, you'll do Ok. Just get in the habit of working sensible hours and in sensible ways, and if you get taken to task for it, stand up for yourself and explain why it's important that everyone works in a sustainable manner. Good managers (and they do exist) will understand.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#29
Statistically, the odds are that for any random thing being done in the US of A, the majority doing it will be white and male. Age and childlessness are probably relatively well co-related, so we only have to account for one of those.

What is comes down to is that the steady supply of labor entering a field causes it to be a buyers market.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineering student about to start an internship(Paid, 4 months) at a major game studio. I am considering applying for a job once I complete the internship if everything goes well. I would like to see if the studio where I will work has a decent workflow. If not I would be willing to tough it out as a generalist programmer while trying to apply to other jobs that interest me in another industry. The id…

For some perspective: I had a good 5 years, I had a lot of fun, and I don't regret it. Whilst I will complain strongly about a lot of the things wrong in the industry, the truth is that I made a good wage (compared to most of my non software-developer friends), got to do some cool stuff, and had a good time doing it. For the most part, the industry is getting better and it's not near the level it used to be. If you g…

Thanks for the advice!

Career planning is pretty stressful for me and it's great to hear from someone in the industry.

I'll keep everything you said in mind when starting out.

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