Oh, I’m not a… — Medium • Hacker News Board

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#41

Post by ims » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:01 PM UTC

Osmium wrote: post #26

I often agonise of this, especially on a CV. e.g. I know how to use (say) a certain programming language a lot better than people I know actually being paid to use said programming language as their full-time job. On the other hand, I know my knowledge is really quite limited and no where approaching an experienced developer--certainly at present I could code up a smaller project or a prototype, but probably no more…

One thing that you can truthfully write (and that I have seen many others write) is "Have completed projects using ..."

It is accurate and conveys a certain flexibility and curiosity to the reader, assuming they are putting any thought into reading it.

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#42

Post by taylonr » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:02 PM UTC

TamDenholm wrote: post #25

One exception to this might be that we dont want to do the thing we might not know. I tell people i'm not a designer, because i really dont want to learn it.

100% this. I spent the first 12 years of my career not writing a single line of production JavaScript or CSS. I did it on the side for my own purposes, but never professionally. Why? I didn't want to. (I still don't really want to, but I like the job I'm at more than I like writing JUST server side code.)

So am I a front end developer? No. Will I be in a week, month, year? No. Why, I DON'T WANT TO BE. Can I use js to manipulate the DOM? Yes. Have I used Backbone.js and Angular and others? Yes. But I will only mention that technology in passing, to show "Hey look, I learn new things"

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#43

Post by mostlystatic » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:16 PM UTC

Maybe one situation where this is a good idea is when the current "designer" is even worse than you are. In that case you add value through your design skills and you're the lead designer in a designer-free company.

Obviously that only works if you know the company isn't actively looking for a real designer, in which case your work will disappoint.

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#44

Post by bennyg » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:17 PM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #10

We do a great disservice to others by not appreciating their craft. I wonder if the author would feel as accomplished in his primary craft if someone who used a bit of jQuery for the first time went and declared that they were now a JavaScript developer? After 10,000 hours of practise a master craftsmen knows he still has a lot to learn. The problem with job title inflation like this is that it bloats the already lar…

Honest questions: what's to stop that person from calling themselves a JavaScript developer? Why shouldn't he/she? What in the words "JavaScript Developer" imply professional ability?

It's hard for me to imagine how this person learning a little jQuery, and calling themselves a developer, somehow saturates what master craftsmen of JS/jQuery do.

1) They won't be stealing contract jobs from the master craftsmen, as a quick look at each person's portfolio would reveal who the better developer is.

2) They won't be stealing full-time work from the master craftsmen, as the phone interviews and in-person would quickly whittle away the new developer.

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#45

Post by jacobparker » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:18 PM UTC

The text on this page is barely readable in Windows/Chrome.

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#46

Post by petenixey » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:24 PM UTC

ebbv wrote: post #36

buro9 wrote: post #10

We do a great disservice to others by not appreciating their craft. I wonder if the author would feel as accomplished in his primary craft if someone who used a bit of jQuery for the first time went and declared that they were now a JavaScript developer? After 10,000 hours of practise a master craftsmen knows he still has a lot to learn. The problem with job title inflation like this is that it bloats the already lar…

Exactly my reaction. I specifically call myself a developer and say "I can design but I am not a designer" because I am not as good as the pros at it. I have respect for those who are better than I am. Put another way; I can change my brakes, oil, spark plugs, and other basic maintenance items on my car. But I'm not a mechanic. I can't rebuild a transmission.

I felt the author's post was less about taking credit from designers and more about appreciating how much value you add by learning the basics of the jobs which intersect your own.

A good designer is expected to advertise their ability to write CSS and Javascript why shouldn't one expect and acknowledge the same from a good full-stack developer. Just as the JS-able designer may not be able to re-write GMail in Ember.js so the developer won't be able to necessarily create beauty but that doesn't mean the skills aren't important or as relevant in a resume.

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#47

Post by darkxanthos » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 3:06 PM UTC

mostlystatic wrote: post #40

darkxanthos wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't put years of experience in technologies on my résumé. Just add a section for projects and list those smallish projects and what languages you used. As you do more independent projects with given language it becomes more impressive even if it were only 6 months of experience. If you get an interview and anyone asks how long you've been using the language be honest, but don't offer that until they as…

Neither metric really captures proficiency accurately. Not sure if that's possible. Years of experience is difficult to measure. If I have a node.js build script that I update occasionally, do I have one year of node.js experience after working on the project for a year? A pure front-end developer will know Javascript much better than a back-end dev who started using it at the same time. I also spent 3 years working…

I'm not saying it does capture proficiency accurately, I'm saying it's better marketing.

Marketing isn't about painting an objective picture, your interviewers will be critical enough to balance it out. Don't do their job for them.

Re: Oh, I’m not a… — Medium

#48

Post by mnicole » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 6:18 PM UTC

jongold wrote: post #28

blacktulip wrote: post #15

This might be off topic but I feel that it is much easier for a designer to learn coding than for a developer to learn design. Anyone shares this feeling?

I think we've just not done a good enough job of providing resources to teach people design. Notable exceptions like http://hackdesign.org/ excluded, It's either 'go to uni for 3 years' or 'figure it out yourself'

Ditto. Unfortunately, the type of people who have the skills worth teaching are often not the ones doing the teaching.

Being primarily non-designers who don't know any better, HN users are often quick to upvote posts regarding design and take these people up on their offers, despite the fact that -- as many of these posts are by people who are merely trying to get their name out there -- they could be doing themselves a disservice by listening to someone who is just trying to promote themselves rather than promote good design practices.