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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

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Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#141

Post by CleanedStar »

patrickaljord wrote: post #114

> When I was at home in Yemen, in 2000, a childhood friend told me that in Afghanistan I could do better than the $50 a month I earned in a factory, and support my family. I’d never really traveled, and knew nothing about Afghanistan, but I gave it a try. Sorry but this account is troubling. He went to Afghanistan during the Taliban extremely insane cruel anti-woman Islamist totalitarian regime and expected a better…

> extremely insane cruel anti-woman Islamist totalitarian regime

Afghanistan was under the secular, socialist leadership of the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan until the CIA launched Operation Cyclone and began funding Osama bin Laden and the Al Qaeda and Taliban predecessors, in order to overthrow that secular, socialist government. Sylvester Stallone made action films like Rambo 3 where he fought alongside Islamic jihadists to overthrow the secular Afghan government. Now some poor guy trying to make a living you pontificate about because he went to a country which was exactly like how the US tried to make it? But they're totalitarian...I guess whisking people off to detention centers with no evidence, no recourse to trial is the democratic way.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#142

Post by beedogs »

ptaipale wrote: post #130
gilgoomesh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need funding. Just send them home. They shouldn't be in any detention center – there is no legal reason to detain them.

If they were sent home, very many of them would be instantly killed, imprisoned or worse. For many of them, Gitmo is probably a lot better than they'd be facing at home.

Really?

We're "protecting them" by keeping them locked up forever without charges?

This kind of moral prevarication disgusts me. You disgust me.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#143

Post by mtrimpe »

jacquesm wrote: post #93
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

> That said, we are not only Gitmo, and we actually do a lot of good things for the world. Indeed, it is not just Gitmo, if only, and it's not just the US. Lots of EU governments are complicit in the whole rendition (what a word, kidnapping would be the appropriate term) program as well and there are/were more places in the world where people are being held without any sort of process, to be tortured and disposed of,…

I've been following the advice of another front-page story (don't follow the news) for a while now so I'm really curious which / how EU governments are complicit in this. Do you have some pointers for more information on that?

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#144

Post by eric-hu »

elliptic wrote: post #86
linuxhansl wrote: post #35

Guantanamo Bay is like the witch hunts in the medieval ages in the sense that when somebody was accused of being a witch there was no meaningful recourse. Gitmo is the same. Most inmates have not been tried, some have been tortured (and are hence considered "untriable"). For a country that claims to follow the "rule of law" this is a strange affair to be in. The "rule of law" way of out this is to bring these people…

Witch hunts were primarily a phenomenon of the early modern period, not the middle ages, during which both the political authorities and the Church repeatedly cautioned against blaming e.g poor crops on supposed witches. Also, I believe about half of witchcraft trials ended in execution - I'm not sure what the comparable rate is for Gitmo (although obviously there are no trials).

Perhaps witch hunts were just performed under a different name. See also:

the Medieval Inquisition (1184–16th century)

the Spanish Inquisition (1478–1834)

the Portuguese Inquisition (1536–1821)

the Roman Inquisition (1542 – c. 1860)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#145

Post by Shinkei »

Who are these "medical personnel" performing these acts? I am a physician and I can tell you that force feeding these people is against our code of ethics. The physician overseeing their treatment should be 'outed' so that we can report this behavior to his/her licensing board.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#146

Post by rmc »

davedx wrote: post #117
jacquesm wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, we are not only Gitmo, and we actually do a lot of good things for the world. Indeed, it is not just Gitmo, if only, and it's not just the US. Lots of EU governments are complicit in the whole rendition (what a word, kidnapping would be the appropriate term) program as well and there are/were more places in the world where people are being held without any sort of process, to be tortured and disposed of,…

But those other countries do not claim moral high ground in the same way the US does on so many other issues, or claim to lead the world with respect to values such as freedom and democracy (of which the right to a fair trial can be considered a part).

Yes they do. All countries claim to be the best.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#147

Post by sgpl »

vxNsr wrote: post #122
sgpl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "I have never been charged with any crime. I have never received a trial." There haven't been any charges brought against him, and his life for the past DECADE (10+ years) has been stuck in a fucking limbo. The US Government won't even let him commit suicide by way of hunger, so in essence he has absolutely no hope or choice as it currently stands.

Once again these are things he is claiming, I haven't done any research into his situation and I doubt anyone here has either. All I'm saying is that taking the word of someone who is in prison for possible terrorism is a mistake. Clearly there was someone who felt this dude was dangerous or else they wouldn't have flown him halfway around the world to "sit in limbo" there are prisons in Afghanistan and Iraq and it's…

TL:DR: This dude was at the wrong place at the wrong time; and unless the US Government can prove otherwise, they should either release him, or if he is a terrorist, it would be a net-win if they just let him die of hunger (As their reputation w.r.t Gitmo has already been sullied).

--

In a parallel universe, I claim that you are committing conspiracy to overthrow the reigning King. You say you were just walking by the forest to check out wildlife. I say nonsense; I have the power to capture you. The extent of your crime is that you were in the forest.

I then capture you and throw you in a dungeon/prison, parade you naked, urinate you, rob you of basic dignity, flog you when I have a bad day or just for my amusement. I also feed you the same bland food daily.

This is your reality [1]

I do this continuously for 20 years == 7300 days in a row. You either start growing crazy or realize it would be better to end the misery yourself. At this point you have been robbed of the aspirations you had to contribute to scientific discovery by cataloguing flora and fauna. You realize that you haven't seen your children for ~20 years. Because you have been labeled an enemy of the state, your wife was thrown out of the city limits, etc. You choose the only option that is remotely viable: deprive yourself of nutrition till you die.

I rob you of that choice. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY FUCKING CHOICE NOW. I strap you to a cot, and force feed you a disgusting liquid diet for the next N years of your life. You live like this for the rest of your life or till I decide otherwise.

Because in this scenario, I have power, I can do whatever I please in the name of protecting the life of this King.

[1] As an experiment, lock yourself in a room for a day/week with some bland nutritious food & pots & pans for bodily functions. No books, no computers, no phone or music players, or any other distractions. For added effect, wear noise canceling headphones & blindfolds. And just chill. Repeat this for a long period of time, and you'll either want to kill yourself because your existence has been reduced to nothing, or you'll go crazy. In reality you'll get pretty restless and bored within the hour.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#148

Post by salgernon »

vxNsr wrote: post #134
pavanky wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know who else did hunger strikes ? Some old chap named Gandhi.

Nice! Gandhi also preached and practiced something called "Peaceful Protest" this guy is accused of "associating with"/guarding UBL.

If he is accused, then surely discovery and a trial are in order.

Even nazis got trials.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#149

Post by natrius »

cskau wrote: post #124
patrickaljord wrote: post #114

> When I was at home in Yemen, in 2000, a childhood friend told me that in Afghanistan I could do better than the $50 a month I earned in a factory, and support my family. I’d never really traveled, and knew nothing about Afghanistan, but I gave it a try. Sorry but this account is troubling. He went to Afghanistan during the Taliban extremely insane cruel anti-woman Islamist totalitarian regime and expected a better…

> Sorry but this account is troubling. He went to Afghanistan during the Taliban extremely insane cruel anti-woman Islamist totalitarian regime and expected a better life? That's like someone saying he traveled to Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime and expected a better pay as he didn't know anything about Cambodia at the time. This alone takes the credibility away from this story for me While it might sound "ins…

Nitpick: Afghanistan isn't an Arabic country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#150

Post by breakyerself »

ptaipale wrote: post #130
gilgoomesh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need funding. Just send them home. They shouldn't be in any detention center – there is no legal reason to detain them.

If they were sent home, very many of them would be instantly killed, imprisoned or worse. For many of them, Gitmo is probably a lot better than they'd be facing at home.

Thats stupid. You're stupid.
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