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India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

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Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#101

Post by ahomescu1 »

not_that_noob wrote: post #85
trhtrsh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe they just don't want people using residential streets as highways? Do you know what "through traffic" means? If those poor people try to stop their cars in Atherton, they aren't "through traffic".

Those are public streets in Atherton, that they want to treat as if it was their private property. If it was all private they can do what they like. The roads belong to the public - including the folks from RWC.

Define "public". Public to Atherton residents? Public to Californians? Public to Americans? If it's built and maintained from local Atherton taxes, they should get a say in who uses it.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#102

Post by pekk »

trhtrsh wrote: post #77
mjn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The class system might also interfere with other motives that sometimes lead wealthier people to act generously even when they aren't particularly altruistic or compassionate. In societies where people see each other as roughly part of the same community, one of the advantages of being rich is that you can be munificent with your money, which gains you social status and prestige. You can see that in smaller American…

Indeed, and selling "personal advertising space" on the sides of libraries, and "putting a price on social status" are perhaps the only way to achieve some measure of equality. (Almost) everyone craves social status. Let people earn it in healthy ways, by their contributions , not their accumulations ; don't envy their Jaguars, be dismissive of them. And don't resent people who contribute because "yeah, they should h…

Why would it be wrong to expect people to contribute back to the society which has enriched them?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#103

Post by jiggy2011 »

davidroberts wrote: post #74

This does not just apply in India. A long time ago, I had a job soliciting donations door to door in the US. We did all we could to avoid the rich neighborhoods and actively sought out the poor minority neighborhoods. People in those neighborhoods with only two dollars would give one to help others. In the rich neighborhoods, they would call the police the moment they saw you. If I ever had to have a heart attack in…

In the UK a lot of door to door collecting for charities is done by private companies who take a significant chunk of the donation for themselves.

Perhaps richer people are more likely to know this and be sceptical of door to door collections. They may also value their time more and not like being "hassled".

This does not necessarily mean that they do not provide charity donations. They may just do it in a smarter way, for example attending charity dinners/events where they get to rub shoulders with other affluent people.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#104

Post by pekk »

Camillo wrote: post #52
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #10

This is not elite entitlement. This is right wing entitlement. The recent death of Maggie reminded me of what she really changed - she made it ok to be selfish and disdainful of "undeserving" poor. India was a hybridised socialist country for a very long time - coming out of that will look at lot like Britain the in the eighties I suspect - and if you want to put bets on the next two term incumbent - they will look a…

There's plenty of right-wing people in the middle and lower classes.

The claim made (right or wrong) was that the problem was not being an elite, but having certain ideology. In other words, that class is not the real issue.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#105

Post by derringer »

manishsharan wrote: post #100

I highly doubt the veracity of the article about the SUV driving young man and the vegetable seller; this story confirms your worst stereotypes about India and gets eyeballs but it is bullshit. I would like to point out that poor people in India are a very well represented : Communist part and Marxist parties are doing very well in India. Every political party courts the votes of poor people. If you pull shit like th…

Stereotypes often ring true, no one attributes this kind of stuff to northern Europe and there's a reason for that.

As to your claim that he's lying about the vegetable cart story. In order for his car to get swarmed, at least one of those vegetable sellers has to make the first move, sometimes this happens, but 9 times out of 10 people look out for their own skins ahead of righteous vengeance.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#107

Post by microarchitect »

ashray wrote: post #6

Ooh, no comments, I'll bite. The last time I said something negative about Indian society I had my personal details thrown all over HN. Wonder what's going to happen this time. So here's the thing. This article is pretty spot on. We, the privileged of India, do indeed feel entitled. There's absolutely no doubt about that. My theory is that the population pressure in India is so very high that you're always fighting f…

It's VERY EASY in India to make a difference in someone's life. Even if you're middle class, you can make a difference because people around you are way poorer than you. The problem is one of large scale apathy and complete indifference.

I agree but let's not lose track of the fact that empathy doesn't end at national borders. We Indians have a responsibility to help those of us who are less privileged than us, but so does everyone else in the world. And let's also not forget that our conditions are the way the are thanks largely to colonialism and that the British in particular and the western world in general profited massively from our suffering during that time. And finally let's also not forget that immigration and employment laws in the western world even today actively work towards denying economic opportunities to people in developing countries and this plays a huge part in countries like India staying poor.

My point is that it's a bit too simplistic to frame it as Indians need to do X instead of Y and then they will be fine. Indians are doing Y not because they're genetically deficient but because we've gotten stuck in a local maxima that is mostly not of our own making.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#108

Post by Daniel_Newby »

javert wrote: post #82
not_that_noob wrote: post #71

Humans are apes. It happens right here in Silicon Valley too. Atherton has nice little yellow signs that say 'No Through Traffic'. Why? They don't want the poor people from Redwood City coming through. In fact, one Atherton gentleman went to a RWC City Council meeting complaining about it and asking RWC to put up signs on their side too. The folks at RWC apparently told him to go stuff himself, that those little yell…

Humans are not apes. Neither literally, nor figuratively. That's not only incorrect, but it's a vicious thing to say, and it has dangerous implications.

Since when are humans not apes?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#109

Post by cafard »

ashray wrote: post #6

Ooh, no comments, I'll bite. The last time I said something negative about Indian society I had my personal details thrown all over HN. Wonder what's going to happen this time. So here's the thing. This article is pretty spot on. We, the privileged of India, do indeed feel entitled. There's absolutely no doubt about that. My theory is that the population pressure in India is so very high that you're always fighting f…

I have never been closer to India than San Diego, and most of the persons of Indian descent I know speak with either a Midwestern or a Mid-Atlantic accent. Evidently the point has been made about American entitlement, so I'll pass on that.

In general it seems to take a couple of generations of security for any given elite to look around and decide that it has obligations. In an American context, think of the Rockefellers, Harrimans, and Kennedys.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#110

Post by thrownaway2424 »

hkmurakami wrote: post #44
dkarl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what these people call themselves ? Middle class. You see the same thing here in the U.S., and to be honest, I think it's somewhat accurate. The vast majority of the United States is middle class, and there is a huge range of privilege within it. Some parts of the middle class are virtually inaccessible from other parts. The mistake is not in labeling those rich, privileged people "middle class," but rather…

Many SV millionaires still consider themselves to be "upper middle class" (rather than say, lower upper class), and while it may be a bit inaccurate in an absolute monetary sense, the sentiment may actually be somewhat justifiable considering their relatively lack of influence/status/connections that really drive the country (the "old money", for instance). In that sense, even the SV millionaires are outsiders to the…

That's because a million bucks in the Bay Area will only buy you a 900 sq. ft. bungalow on the brink of collapse. A millionaire stopped being remarkable quite a while back.
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