India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement • Hacker News Board

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#71

Post by not_that_noob » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:02 PM UTC

Humans are apes. It happens right here in Silicon Valley too.

Atherton has nice little yellow signs that say 'No Through Traffic'. Why? They don't want the poor people from Redwood City coming through. In fact, one Atherton gentleman went to a RWC City Council meeting complaining about it and asking RWC to put up signs on their side too. The folks at RWC apparently told him to go stuff himself, that those little yellow signs were potentially illegal and if Atherton kept pressing, they would disallow traffic from Atherton through RWC. This was about two years ago.

The rich are different from you and me - they take because they can and because they can then get away with it.

[This is not to say that all rich are evil, nor all poor virtuous. Just that as money accumulates, so does power, and this when left unchecked by self-imposed moral constraints leads down this path.]

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#72

Post by trhtrsh » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:05 PM UTC

16s wrote: post #59

nbouscal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would not matter how rich you were. Which USA do you live in?

Every part of America I have ever been in would not tolerate that. It's illegal.

Of course it's illegal, and most people couldn't escape consequences. But the upper class can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy#Chappaquiddick_inci...

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#73

Post by scarmig » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:05 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #10

This is not elite entitlement. This is right wing entitlement. The recent death of Maggie reminded me of what she really changed - she made it ok to be selfish and disdainful of "undeserving" poor. India was a hybridised socialist country for a very long time - coming out of that will look at lot like Britain the in the eighties I suspect - and if you want to put bets on the next two term incumbent - they will look a…

The "left" in India in the 1970s was dissolving legitimate governance, declaring martial law, and engaging in mass forced sterilization of undesirables.

If I were to take sides in what's worse... well, I wouldn't. Don't take sides on account of lesser of two evils. Just condemn evil.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#74

Post by davidroberts » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

This does not just apply in India. A long time ago, I had a job soliciting donations door to door in the US. We did all we could to avoid the rich neighborhoods and actively sought out the poor minority neighborhoods. People in those neighborhoods with only two dollars would give one to help others. In the rich neighborhoods, they would call the police the moment they saw you. If I ever had to have a heart attack in the street, I would much rather have it in a poor neighborhood, because some kind person would help me.

My theory is that poor people rely on cooperation with others to survive, and this forces them to develop compassion and learn good human relations at a young age. Rich people on the other had don't need others so much, and instead are much likely be in competition with them.

Even in family relations this applies. Siblings in poor families offer much needed support to each other. In rich families siblings seem more likely to be considered as competitors for parental affections at a young age, and competitors for inheritance when older. This mentality of constant competition is poisonous.

Honestly, I think that being rich is a pretty clear path to ultimate unhappiness. Better to be slightly poor in money and rich in the things that actually bring happiness, like family, health, friends, spare time, and a clear conscience.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#75

Post by trhtrsh » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:08 PM UTC

not_that_noob wrote: post #71

Humans are apes. It happens right here in Silicon Valley too. Atherton has nice little yellow signs that say 'No Through Traffic'. Why? They don't want the poor people from Redwood City coming through. In fact, one Atherton gentleman went to a RWC City Council meeting complaining about it and asking RWC to put up signs on their side too. The folks at RWC apparently told him to go stuff himself, that those little yell…

Or maybe they just don't want people using residential streets as highways?

Do you know what "through traffic" means? If those poor people try to stop their cars in Atherton, they aren't "through traffic".

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#76

Post by Confusion » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:11 PM UTC

Nietzsche and The Last Psychiatrist[1] would have a field day with this.

The article tells a story we love to believe: we may be poorer than the people the article talks about, but we are nicer, more empathic, better people. We love to believe it, because it makes us feel good about ourselves and provides a sense of justice: nobody has it all and if someone has more of one thing, he will have less of something else.

We also love to believe it because that way we don't have to consider a far more disturbing possibility: that these people aren't accidentally rich and their moral shortcomings aren't a result of their riches. That they are rich exactly because they are capable of the repugnant behavior described in the article. That our capitalist system is fallacious, can be gamed and is being gamed by these people. The system we are so infatuated with allows people that are undeserving, cheaters, to get the prize.

[1] http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#77

Post by trhtrsh » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

mjn wrote: post #37

dalke wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange. When I have money, I feel generous about it, and want to use that money to help others. I thought most people felt that way. It's one of the reasons that a progressive tax system makes good sense to me. There are many ways that people get to be rich. Some are born into it, and stay rich because of systemic biases. Others "value spending their time getting money over helping others" and get rich that way. Sti…

The class system might also interfere with other motives that sometimes lead wealthier people to act generously even when they aren't particularly altruistic or compassionate. In societies where people see each other as roughly part of the same community, one of the advantages of being rich is that you can be munificent with your money, which gains you social status and prestige. You can see that in smaller American…

Indeed, and selling "personal advertising space" on the sides of libraries, and "putting a price on social status" are perhaps the only way to achieve some measure of equality.

(Almost) everyone craves social status. Let people earn it in healthy ways, by their contributions, not their accumulations; don't envy their Jaguars, be dismissive of them. And don't resent people who contribute because "yeah, they should have, they are rich". Congratulate them for doing good and encourage competition to be the largest philanthropist.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#78

Post by huhtenberg » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

davidroberts wrote: post #74

This does not just apply in India. A long time ago, I had a job soliciting donations door to door in the US. We did all we could to avoid the rich neighborhoods and actively sought out the poor minority neighborhoods. People in those neighborhoods with only two dollars would give one to help others. In the rich neighborhoods, they would call the police the moment they saw you. If I ever had to have a heart attack in…

> Even in family relations this applies.

And you are saying this based on what? Common sense?

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#79

Post by trhtrsh » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

ryanmolden wrote: post #60

tusharc wrote: post #16

There is an implied causality in this article. Being rich -> Lose empathy. I'd be curious to know if there indeed is causality in either direction (Less empathetic people get richer) or is it just correlation masquerading as causality.

I have always been a strong believer in the saying "Fortune does not change men, it unmasks them". Studying this area would be difficult though as you either need to know ahead of time who would be successful, or study such a large cross-section that you are statistically likely to snare future successful people in your population.

Well, with modern technology, it's harder for a newly wealthy person to conceal their past. The days of whitewashing personal history are fading.

Re: India’s elites have a ferocious sense of entitlement

#80

Post by javert » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 9:17 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #44

dkarl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what these people call themselves ? Middle class. You see the same thing here in the U.S., and to be honest, I think it's somewhat accurate. The vast majority of the United States is middle class, and there is a huge range of privilege within it. Some parts of the middle class are virtually inaccessible from other parts. The mistake is not in labeling those rich, privileged people "middle class," but rather…

Many SV millionaires still consider themselves to be "upper middle class" (rather than say, lower upper class), and while it may be a bit inaccurate in an absolute monetary sense, the sentiment may actually be somewhat justifiable considering their relatively lack of influence/status/connections that really drive the country (the "old money", for instance). In that sense, even the SV millionaires are outsiders to the…

I don't think "old money" really "drives the country" in the US.

Although that is probably also a bit of an overstatement in Europe as well, this issue is really one of the major historical distinctions between the US and Europe.