Solar doesn't have to be expensive up-front thanks to companies that lease solar systems like SolarCity (who's chairman is Elon Musk, ran by his cousins).
Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
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Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Excuse my ignorance (I am a layperson and simply interested in this subject), but are you suggesting that the utility themselves would rollout distributed solar to their customers, and thus the utilities engineers are skeptical of the technology and how it would be rolled out? It seems to me that the whole point is that consumers will begin the rollout themselves, generating and storing power on their own and the onl…
I think the article is talking about customers who buy their own solar installations. The thing is, no system is available (afaik) that is 24/7 solar power (batteries add a massive cost to user solar installations) so the only way for you to have power at all times is to sell the surplus generated solar back to the utility (which is where the engineering problems come in) during peak solar hours and using the gird of…
Well the tech for batteries is getting cheaper and better.
Check out this Hak5 rig of van with PV and batteries: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWmCpt2KXOs
From this, it is not hard to imagine if one scaled this setup one could be off the grid now.
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#43The culture of protecting existing businesses is becoming infuriating to read about. Businesses are there because they're the most efficient way to solve the needs of a group of people. If circumstances change and a better solution presents itself then both new and _existing_ businesses have an opportunity to take advantage of it. There's absolutely nothing to stop the existing utility companies being the companies t…
This article isn't talking about protecting them, simply the problems that they are now facing and will likely face in the future.
"There's absolutely nothing to stop the existing utility companies being the companies that lead the charge with solar power."
Did you read the article? Energy infrastructure is amortized over THIRTY years. That means that they have huge liabilities until that equipment is payed off and chances are they have to upgrade it shortly after. Even pumping the solar companies full of government and investment dollars doesn't compare to all of the private equity that has gone into funding the existing infrastructure.
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#44If they are regulated monopolies, it seems like any issue they complain about is directly addressable by adjusting the rates they are allowed to charge, so as to keep their profits reasonable.
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Excuse my ignorance (I am a layperson and simply interested in this subject), but are you suggesting that the utility themselves would rollout distributed solar to their customers, and thus the utilities engineers are skeptical of the technology and how it would be rolled out? It seems to me that the whole point is that consumers will begin the rollout themselves, generating and storing power on their own and the onl…
I think the article is talking about customers who buy their own solar installations. The thing is, no system is available (afaik) that is 24/7 solar power (batteries add a massive cost to user solar installations) so the only way for you to have power at all times is to sell the surplus generated solar back to the utility (which is where the engineering problems come in) during peak solar hours and using the gird of…
Yes! But in that paradigm, where you generate 80%+ of your needed energy and rely on the grid for the rest, how does that affect the utility?
The only difference to them is that you draw less power than you used to. Sure, it would benefit them to learn your habits so they can manage steady power delivery at scale, but they don't get a say in your solar rollout. They don't get to prevent it. They don't get to be skeptical (or if they are, they can't act on it).
The person I'm replying to seemed to say that the engineers at utilities are skeptical of this technology and honestly I don't understand how they're relevant, since utilities aren't rolling out the technology, maintaining the technology, etc.
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#46The culture of protecting existing businesses is becoming infuriating to read about. Businesses are there because they're the most efficient way to solve the needs of a group of people. If circumstances change and a better solution presents itself then both new and _existing_ businesses have an opportunity to take advantage of it. There's absolutely nothing to stop the existing utility companies being the companies t…
You frustration is from your false assumption. Businesses are there to make their owners as much money as possible. This frequently does not involve efficiency.
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#47I work in this space. I think it is worth noting that, yes this is true for some players, particularly at middle management and executive levels. However it is equally work noting that some of the resistance is just conservative engineering. Would you just grab the latest 0.1 release of the hot new database and throw it up on your production systems because everyone keeps talking about the promise of it? This is a re…
I wouldn't want my electric grid engineers (or any other kind of infrastructure) to be anything less than skeptical of change.
The same dichotomy exists in developer tools as opposed to recreational software.
Yes, please rapidly innovate my Facebook and NetFlix UIs, and even pipe those changes to me automatically. On the other hand, please methodically roll out changes to XCode and Django, and let me take them when I have time.
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the article is talking about customers who buy their own solar installations. The thing is, no system is available (afaik) that is 24/7 solar power (batteries add a massive cost to user solar installations) so the only way for you to have power at all times is to sell the surplus generated solar back to the utility (which is where the engineering problems come in) during peak solar hours and using the gird of…
Yes! But in that paradigm, where you generate 80%+ of your needed energy and rely on the grid for the rest, how does that affect the utility? The only difference to them is that you draw less power than you used to. Sure, it would benefit them to learn your habits so they can manage steady power delivery at scale, but they don't get a say in your solar rollout. They don't get to prevent it. They don't get to be skept…
But what if you generate 110% of your electricity needs? You would push out more power than is coming in, sometimes literally running the meter backwards.
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#49I work in this space. I think it is worth noting that, yes this is true for some players, particularly at middle management and executive levels. However it is equally work noting that some of the resistance is just conservative engineering. Would you just grab the latest 0.1 release of the hot new database and throw it up on your production systems because everyone keeps talking about the promise of it? This is a re…
I don't understand. This might be the current problem for utilities, where laws demand that solar power can be inserted into the grid (often as a priority or for a guaranteed price) by what would normally be just consumer households. This article is talking about using your solar power system to actually fulfill your complete power needs, without any grid.
Could you point to where the article talks about people disconnecting from the grid? I couldn't find it in my read through. For instance, the article says at one point, "What happens if a whole bunch of customers start generating their own power and using the grid merely as backup?"
I think the risk of people disconnecting from the grid is fairly low, since the necessary lead acid batteries cost thousands of dollars.
-Former utility employee
Re: Solar panels could destroy U.S. utilities, according to U.S. utilities
#50More like: business model of utilities disrupted by distributed energy resources. Also, peak demand in CA is at 9 pm, not noon: https://www.caiso.com/outlook/outlook.html The underlying problem is the mismatch between the old business model: Generate, distribute, and deliver electricity; charge for connection to grid and for electricity delivered and consumed. and the new situation: Generate *or* purchase electricity…
Question: the daily peak is at 9pm, but what time of day is the yearly peak?
I imagine the yearly peak might be earlier in the day, because it will occur on very hot days.
The time of day of the yearly peak is more important for capacity planning than the time of day of the daily peak.