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Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

rackspace.com

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Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#51

Post by trhtrsh »

larrys wrote: post #12
jonathanwallace wrote: post #4

Nothing makes me want to become a rackspace customer more than posts like this. I adore integrity.

I'm also a RS customer but how do you see this as "integrity" as opposed to a regular business decision done with the intent to prevent future problems? (Noting also that there is the PR value of spending money this way as your comment proves!)

For example, they could offer to buy the patent from the current holder, and finance an attack on their competitors.

But they chose a higher road.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#52

Post by toasterlovin »

spartango wrote: post #40
angersock wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation." What a merry little idea. Has it occurred to you that there are a large number of people who invent, innovate, and develop because it's simply not an option not to? That it is a sort of compulsion, a reason for being? In a market without patents, I'm sure capitalists will find a way to keep making money, just as I'm sure that inventors and makers will conti…

It totally depends on the field. In software, perhaps this would work nicely, because rapid iteration and expansion prevails. That said, in the pharmaceutical or material science worlds, the cost and pace of research require that protection be afforded to those who choose to invest and disclose the fruits of their labor to the world. It's not so black and white that there are no incentives for disclosed innovation, b…

There was plenty of invention before patents existed as a legal concept.

Patents exist because some people who came up with clever ideas thought (properly) that it was in their best interest to be granted a legal monopoly on the implementation of their ideas and lobbied lawmakers to grant them these monopolies.

Patents did not come into being because we, as a society (speaking as an American), determined that our pace of innovation was too slow and decided that we needed to do something about it.

This idea, that patents encourage innovation, is the justification, not the motivation, for the legal construct that is the patent. There were no experiments done to test this hypothesis. In fact, I think the history of invention before patents suggests quite strongly that they are not needed; that, in fact, people will invent simply because we are tool builders and tinkerers.

EDIT: To testify to the fact that people invented before patents: http://bibliodyssey.blogspot.com/2011/12/machine-power.html

A book from 1606 showing illustrations of gear and hydraulic powered devices. Some are fanciful, others less so, but they all clearly show humankind figuring out every last way to apply a technology to the tasks of every day life.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#53

Post by dublinben »

larrys wrote: post #12
jonathanwallace wrote: post #4

Nothing makes me want to become a rackspace customer more than posts like this. I adore integrity.

I'm also a RS customer but how do you see this as "integrity" as opposed to a regular business decision done with the intent to prevent future problems? (Noting also that there is the PR value of spending money this way as your comment proves!)

Countless other companies in their position would pay the settlement and sign an NDA. We can never know the extent of this problem unless companies like RackSpace speak up.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#54

Post by charonn0 »

lukifer wrote: post #29

I've been thinking about the connection between biological signaling and advertising; like colored plumage or a large chest cavity, a multi-million ad campaign is a hard-to-fake signal, and in a way, such campaigns are as much about overt displays of power than the contents of the ad. In that sense, this move is the pinnacle of the best form of advertising. Whether they are acting out of pure altruism or pure strateg…

Right. Even if they are doing it solely to look good, it's heartening to their customers (and potential customers) that they understand that it does make them look good, and why.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#55

Post by VanL »

drakaal wrote: post #18
drakaal wrote: post #16

Patent trolls suck. But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation. The issue is not that Patents are bad, it is that you can patent a "unique way to swing on the playground" and be awarded a patent. Patent officer often don't know what they are awarding a patent for. This is supposed to be kept in check by the fact that you can fight a patent. I think that if you file a patent, sue someone over it, and lo…

All that said. RackSpace (who I do use for some of my hosting) has several patents. And it is kind of a Pot/Kettle scenario since they have used those on smaller companies in the past.

You are right, we do have some patents.

We have never used them against others.

Unfortunately, we feel like we need to be prepared for when other patent-holding entities come knocking. We know they will, because they already have.

We don't make the mistake of confusing "patents" with "innovation." The majority of what we create, we release under open source licenses, including a patent license.

If people and companies want to play nice with us, we will play nice. We believe that we can compete, and win, in the marketplace. We are only preparing ourselves for the challenges of those who don't want to compete in the marketplace.

Van

(Rackspace VP of IP)

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#56

Post by clayFrance76 »

If you abolish the patent, you would then become like China and Russia and a few of the other countries where lots of STEALING takes place...Hence, a dive in creativity would happen, just like you see in China and Russia for the last 100 or so years since socialism and communism.

Also, China, only very very few are rich, definitely less than the USA's 1 percent. And only those in power make the decisions, those little guys ideas are easily walked on by a number of "market competition" methods.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#57

Post by gknoy »

feralmoan wrote: post #21
honzzz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And I also try to avoid companies that settle. I totally understand why they do it but still... in my eyes it's like supporting terrorism. I feel it's wrong to give terrorists any money even when it's advantageous to your business or even when you are threatened by them.

That's a fine ideology but when trolls are diverting precious resource and focus away from actual innovation over protracted and expensive legal inventions, settling can be a pragmatic choice for just getting on with life. I'd love to be in RackSpace's position of being able to hammer down these worthless parasites.

Once you settle, other trolls see you as a target. Kipling's Dane-Geld [1] explains this pretty well. "Getting on with life" is not something that paying extortionate patent settlements will always allow you to do.

By spending more resources to not only defend themselves, but also destroy the weapon that the patent troll is using, Rackspace is advertising that not only do other trolls risk spending money in court, but they also risk the invalidation of their patents. Anyone trolling is unlikely to want to risk that.

1: http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#58

Post by shmerl »

clayFrance76 wrote: post #56

If you abolish the patent, you would then become like China and Russia and a few of the other countries where lots of STEALING takes place...Hence, a dive in creativity would happen, just like you see in China and Russia for the last 100 or so years since socialism and communism. Also, China, only very very few are rich, definitely less than the USA's 1 percent. And only those in power make the decisions, those littl…

If you abolish the patent, you would then become like China and Russia and a few of the other countries where lots of STEALING takes place...Hence, a dive in creativity would happen,

You have no way of proving this connection. Practice even shows completely the opposite - absence of software patents increases creativity. "Stealing" is using the patents to extort money. Or should I rather call it robbing to sound more appropriate? So abolishing software patents will reduce robbing.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#59

Post by tbrownaw »

drakaal wrote: post #16

Patent trolls suck. But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation. The issue is not that Patents are bad, it is that you can patent a "unique way to swing on the playground" and be awarded a patent. Patent officer often don't know what they are awarding a patent for. This is supposed to be kept in check by the fact that you can fight a patent. I think that if you file a patent, sue someone over it, and lo…

But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation.

This is quite obviously false, as there was innovation before patents were invented and not all innovations nowadays are patented. It isn't even at all clear that the existence of patents increases innovation.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#60

Post by mark212 »

lukifer wrote: post #29

I've been thinking about the connection between biological signaling and advertising; like colored plumage or a large chest cavity, a multi-million ad campaign is a hard-to-fake signal, and in a way, such campaigns are as much about overt displays of power than the contents of the ad. In that sense, this move is the pinnacle of the best form of advertising. Whether they are acting out of pure altruism or pure strateg…

the signalling isn't primarily to current and prospective customers, it's to other trolls out there. The $75k (negotiable) offer of compromise is on the low end of such demands and the signal to other NPEs thinking about suing Rackspace is Be Prepared for War.

That customers think this is a good thing and burnishes Rackspace's reputation for being on the side of developers, etc. is a nice bonus.

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