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Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

rackspace.com

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Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#41

Post by toasterlovin »

chime wrote: post #5

If IPR for screen-rotation ends up with nullifying the patent, can organizations like EFF start doing that pro-actively for other ridiculous patents like One-Click-Buy and Swipe-to-Unlock? Or does the patent-holder have to be proven as a troll?

I would guess that there are asymmetries that make this an untenable approach, long term.

First, there is the asymmetry of cost, ie. it probably costs less money to file for and be granted a bogus patent than it costs to invalidate said patent.

Secondly, there is the asymmetry of motivation, ie. patent trolls have greater financial motivation to file for bogus patents than other parties have financial motivation to invalidate these patents.

These asymmetries are really the root of the problem. What's really needed is a lobbying group to pass legislation that changes the incentive structure, including, in my opinion, abolishing patents.

The problem here is that many of the organizations who could fund such a lobbying group (like Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.) have been coopted by the patent system, because they themselves are patent holders.

Actually, its worse than that; they seem convinced that their patents have actual intrinsic value, which kind of makes sense. They spend a lot of money doing research and development, so of course they want to believe that a legal mechanism for preserving the value of that R&D is legitimate.

This whole thing is frustrating...

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#42

Post by wissler »

[deleted] wrote: post #34

[deleted]

Specifically: just because you thought of an idea, does not give you any moral prerogative to go stealing other people's real property because 1) you got to the government bureaucrat first and 2) they happened to think of it too.

Patents are morally reprehensible. If society is going to have some vaguely patent-like thing, it's going to have to be radically different from what we think of when we think of patents, something far more modest than this insane binding of other people's thoughts for the sake of the childish whine: "but I thought of it first!"

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#43

Post by pi18n »

[deleted] wrote: post #34

[deleted]

In the short term, I'd like the government to start with RMS's plan--anything done in software is math and cannot be targeted by patents. They (apparatus for performing X patents) are overly broad, most are not non-obvious, and the system is retarding far more innovation than it enables. Especially when we consider the pace and relative lack of cost in software development.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#44

Post by coolj »

escaped_hn wrote: post #17

Coming from the company that put a "TM" after every mention of the generic word "Cloud Server" on their website.

A trademark is different from a software patent. A trademark addresses specific product branding in a specific market; a software patent -- at least the ones in question -- address a generic process that's not limited to a specific market. Consider the trademark on the Wikipedia name versus a (hypothetical) software patent on "a method for storing and displaying user-generated content."

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#45

Post by Ilmesnkie_Jones »

chime wrote: post #5

If IPR for screen-rotation ends up with nullifying the patent, can organizations like EFF start doing that pro-actively for other ridiculous patents like One-Click-Buy and Swipe-to-Unlock? Or does the patent-holder have to be proven as a troll?

The patent holder would have to sue someone first or there would be no standing to bring a case.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#46

Post by mpyne »

tomp wrote: post #28
a_p wrote: post #22

If you cannot understand how people could possible think that software patents are acceptable, I recommend reading this article. [1] Not because it will convince you that software patents are good — it won't. But it will help you understand the thought process of lawyers who do think that there should be some software patents. For example, Goetz writes that he supports "patents where the preferred implementation of a…

Personally, I support software patents. I'm just against idea patents, as opposed to invention patents. Screen rotation is no invention. It's an idea; once you have it, it's trivial to implement. That, IMO, does not afford patent protection. However, certain things can, and should be patents. RSA, for example. It's a non-trivial procedure that was non-trivial to invent and there are not very many alternatives.

RSA is actually kind of a bad example. It's an eminent example of almost-pure number theory ported over to a software domain, and mathematics is explicitly non-patentable. Next you'd be telling me that Fourier transforms should be patentable.

I get that it's difficult to incentivize the development of truly difficult abstract ideas, but mathematicians and physicists have been doing exactly that for centuries and they appear to be doing alright.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#47

Post by davidu »

amikula wrote: post #20

To me, this is a strong sign that the patent holder should at least run a substantial risk of getting charged for legal costs if they lose. It might require a bit more due diligence on the part of the patent holder in genuinely enforceable patents, but it would all but eliminate the motivation of patent trolls when they know their patent is dubious. I applaud Rackspace for this act of charity to the community, but it…

That's the goal of the SHIELD act, which will not pass, unfortunately.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#48

Post by mandlar »

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #30
mandlar wrote: post #11

I wish the best of luck to Rackspace. As an independent Android developer, I live with the slight fear that one day I'm going to eventually be hit with one of these absurd patent lawsuits. I only program for Android as a hobby aside from my day job as a web programmer. What can an independent/hobbyist developer like myself do when we are eventually challenged with something we can by no means defend ourselves against…

If you are independent, then can't you defend yourself in court?

It's not that, it's that I wouldn't have sufficient money to do it. Or bankrupt myself in the process.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#49

Post by Proleps »

> Patent litigation typically costs defendants between $1 million and $5 million just to stay in the fight.

A battleground where only the rich can win a fight. There doesn't seem to be any justice left in the American courts :(.

The only way to win is to not play their game. It's probably cheaper to buy a shotgun and show up at the doorstep of the person suing you with the message: "I know where you live" :S

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#50

Post by davidroberts »

I totally applaud Rackspace's dedication to the public good. But I think their response is their best move economically too, despite the initial cost. They are basically saying "Troll me, and you risk losing the whole patent." It's like dealing with a playground bully. Once you display a willingness to fight, they go pick on someone less assertive.
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