Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll • Hacker News Board

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#21

Post by feralmoan » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:09 PM UTC

honzzz wrote: post #13

jonathanwallace wrote: post #4

Nothing makes me want to become a rackspace customer more than posts like this. I adore integrity.

Exactly. And I also try to avoid companies that settle. I totally understand why they do it but still... in my eyes it's like supporting terrorism. I feel it's wrong to give terrorists any money even when it's advantageous to your business or even when you are threatened by them.

That's a fine ideology but when trolls are diverting precious resource and focus away from actual innovation over protracted and expensive legal inventions, settling can be a pragmatic choice for just getting on with life. I'd love to be in RackSpace's position of being able to hammer down these worthless parasites.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#22

Post by a_p » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:10 PM UTC

If you cannot understand how people could possible think that software patents are acceptable, I recommend reading this article. [1] Not because it will convince you that software patents are good — it won't. But it will help you understand the thought process of lawyers who do think that there should be some software patents. For example, Goetz writes that he supports "patents where the preferred implementation of an inventive machine process is in software (via a computer program), hardware (via circuitry), or a combination of both software and hardware."

[1] http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2010/09/in-defense-of-softwa...

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#23

Post by drakaal » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:11 PM UTC

Arjuna wrote: post #6

On the topic, this is quite an interesting TED talk given by Drew Curtis. "You need to know that the average patent troll defense costs $2M and takes 18 months... when you win." Drew Curtis: How I Beat a Patent Troll https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_lb3D7Ay-M

Drew is exaggeration. I took on Acacia, it cost me nothing more than the travel, and time away from my primary business.

Lawyers cost a lot of money, but for something like "the ability to rotate a mobile screen" that rackspace is fighting you don't need a lawyer.

Prior art exists for rotating screens on desktops and tablet PCs. Feature parity on Mobile is not innovative. Obviousness is the challenge to a patent and the defense against its infringement.

This is not a "risky" case. It is not a case that requires 4 lawyers for a year. It is a case for 1 guy part time for a year. Which if he is $400k a year could be $75k but it doesn't need to be that.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#24

Post by drakaal » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:13 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #19

drakaal wrote: post #16

Patent trolls suck. But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation. The issue is not that Patents are bad, it is that you can patent a "unique way to swing on the playground" and be awarded a patent. Patent officer often don't know what they are awarding a patent for. This is supposed to be kept in check by the fact that you can fight a patent. I think that if you file a patent, sue someone over it, and lo…

"But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation." Aren't all of the tech companies who are supposedly violating these patents proof that the patents aren't needed for innovation? Isn't making a better product so you can have a leg up on your competition incentive enough?

For obvious things like this, there shouldn't have been a patent issued. If I however invent the first hyperspace engine, You shouldn't be able to buy one, take it a part and make your own.

That is what patents are supposed to protect. Cotton Gins, and Hyperspace engines. Not Rotate your screen on your phone like you do on your tablet.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#25

Post by laureny » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:13 PM UTC

You don't need to kill patents to kill the troll: modify the law so that the only way patents can be transferred is when the company gets acquired.

This makes patents a valuable asset for start ups while completely killing the patent troll business.

Patents can be useful, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#26

Post by coolj » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:13 PM UTC

drakaal wrote: post #16

Patent trolls suck. But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation. The issue is not that Patents are bad, it is that you can patent a "unique way to swing on the playground" and be awarded a patent. Patent officer often don't know what they are awarding a patent for. This is supposed to be kept in check by the fact that you can fight a patent. I think that if you file a patent, sue someone over it, and lo…

It's not 8x, but Rackspace is lobbying[1] for a bill that would allow courts to make patent trolls pay for all of the cost incurred by the defending party in a failed suit[2].

[1] http://www.rackspace.com/blog/patent-trolls-make-them-pay/ (last paragraph) [2] http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.R.845%3A

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#27

Post by angersock » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:14 PM UTC

drakaal wrote: post #16

Patent trolls suck. But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation. The issue is not that Patents are bad, it is that you can patent a "unique way to swing on the playground" and be awarded a patent. Patent officer often don't know what they are awarding a patent for. This is supposed to be kept in check by the fact that you can fight a patent. I think that if you file a patent, sue someone over it, and lo…

"But with out patents there is no incentive for innovation."

What a merry little idea. Has it occurred to you that there are a large number of people who invent, innovate, and develop because it's simply not an option not to? That it is a sort of compulsion, a reason for being?

In a market without patents, I'm sure capitalists will find a way to keep making money, just as I'm sure that inventors and makers will continue to keep inventing and making.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#28

Post by tomp » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:14 PM UTC

a_p wrote: post #22

If you cannot understand how people could possible think that software patents are acceptable, I recommend reading this article. [1] Not because it will convince you that software patents are good — it won't. But it will help you understand the thought process of lawyers who do think that there should be some software patents. For example, Goetz writes that he supports "patents where the preferred implementation of a…

Personally, I support software patents. I'm just against idea patents, as opposed to invention patents.

Screen rotation is no invention. It's an idea; once you have it, it's trivial to implement. That, IMO, does not afford patent protection. However, certain things can, and should be patents. RSA, for example. It's a non-trivial procedure that was non-trivial to invent and there are not very many alternatives.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#29

Post by lukifer » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:15 PM UTC

I've been thinking about the connection between biological signaling and advertising; like colored plumage or a large chest cavity, a multi-million ad campaign is a hard-to-fake signal, and in a way, such campaigns are as much about overt displays of power than the contents of the ad.

In that sense, this move is the pinnacle of the best form of advertising. Whether they are acting out of pure altruism or pure strategy (it's probably both), they are demonstrating their values with non-trivial risks and resources, thereby earning genuine trust with current and prospective customers. Awesome.

Re: Abolish The Patent, Vanquish The Troll

#30

Post by GotAnyMegadeth » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 4:16 PM UTC

mandlar wrote: post #11

I wish the best of luck to Rackspace. As an independent Android developer, I live with the slight fear that one day I'm going to eventually be hit with one of these absurd patent lawsuits. I only program for Android as a hobby aside from my day job as a web programmer. What can an independent/hobbyist developer like myself do when we are eventually challenged with something we can by no means defend ourselves against…

If you are independent, then can't you defend yourself in court?