This is probably due to a longer trend going on since the 70s, where the rise of the M.B.A., accountant and lawyer started. They don't care about the product. In general, why would you want a beancounter running a non-commodity producing company??? I hope this changes soon and these M.B.A. factories stop churning out people.
How Software Companies Die (1995)
11–20 of 25 posts
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#12Post should be titled "The 437th Time You've Read About Programmer's Tribal Aversion to 'Marketers', Except This Time Written By Orson Scott Card" P.S. Let me take a whack at the bee's nest: good software that can't be marketed, isn't.
The central thesis of the article seems to be stated in the first sentence "The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types--and vice versa" Are you saying this is not true? I've been trying to think of a company that is an exception to this, but i can't. [EDIT maybe Apple?] I know that Google managers complain that engineers are taken more seriously in Google then themselves.…
I've yet to meet a superb marketer or manager who thrives in a stifling environment.
That repeated stereotype among techies reflects the closed-mindedness of cliques rather than some supposed 'liberated' viewpoint of hackers.
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#13very slowly
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#14This is probably due to a longer trend going on since the 70s, where the rise of the M.B.A., accountant and lawyer started. They don't care about the product. In general, why would you want a beancounter running a non-commodity producing company??? I hope this changes soon and these M.B.A. factories stop churning out people.
This is probably due to a longer trend going on since the 70s, where the rise of the programmer, hacker and software enginner started. They don't care about the business.
Stereotypes are fun!
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#15"Put them on a time clock, dress them in suits, and they become sullen and start sabotaging the product." So "real" programmers can't dress properly and reject any form of structure? Can we push these trivial stereotypes aside and instead realize that great programmers have a range of personalities? Smart people of all backgrounds, programmers included, rebel against rules that do not make sense. But rejecting rules…
Three of your four sentences are non sequiturs and the other simply confirms the point you're objecting to.
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#16The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types--and vice versa I disagree with this. True, it kills control freaks, but most management doesn't start out out like this. The problem is that when people who expect to be in charge see that they don't have even a minimal level of control, they start to crack down. And that oppressiveness results in the employees (programmers in th…
Yes, but the programmers working on business applications are already wearing suits or at least business casual. They are service programmers not product programmers which, I think, the piece more accurately targets.
The hordes of engineers working on the latest incarnation of BigRetailBankOnline.com do not produce a product, the banks services are its product.
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#17This is probably due to a longer trend going on since the 70s, where the rise of the M.B.A., accountant and lawyer started. They don't care about the product. In general, why would you want a beancounter running a non-commodity producing company??? I hope this changes soon and these M.B.A. factories stop churning out people.
This is probably due to a longer trend going on since the 70s, where the rise of the programmer, hacker and software enginner started. They don't care about the business. Stereotypes are fun!
You know, when the MBA degree started, it was intended to teach business skills to experienced engineers as they were promoted into management roles. The idea of a "pure manager" MBA who hasn't ever actually done the "real work" his organization does to make money is a relatively recent one. And that is the problem with MBAs. Similarly, in many companies, it is possible to be a project manager having never done any of the projects you are managing. This usually ends in tears because practitioners never bother to mention "obvious" things so the PMs lose track of cross-functional dependencies.
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#18Post should be titled "The 437th Time You've Read About Programmer's Tribal Aversion to 'Marketers', Except This Time Written By Orson Scott Card" P.S. Let me take a whack at the bee's nest: good software that can't be marketed, isn't.
The central thesis of the article seems to be stated in the first sentence "The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types--and vice versa" Are you saying this is not true? I've been trying to think of a company that is an exception to this, but i can't. [EDIT maybe Apple?] I know that Google managers complain that engineers are taken more seriously in Google then themselves.…
"[EDIT maybe Apple?]"
The true genius of Jobs is his ability to understand, lead, motivate and inspire hacker-types (while not really being one himself). Woz, of course, being the first example.
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
The central thesis of the article seems to be stated in the first sentence "The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types--and vice versa" Are you saying this is not true? I've been trying to think of a company that is an exception to this, but i can't. [EDIT maybe Apple?] I know that Google managers complain that engineers are taken more seriously in Google then themselves.…
"[EDIT maybe Apple?]" The true genius of Jobs is his ability to understand, lead, motivate and inspire hacker-types (while not really being one himself). Woz, of course, being the first example.
My read on Apple is that they're not a software company - they're a hardware design company that feels passionately about the software not sucking and detracting from the design of the hardware.
Last time I knew, Apple's turnover on engineers was fairly high, higher than I expected for a company of that stature.
Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)
#20I think this is a view that some subset of developers has, but there's definitely another camp of developers who thrive in an entrepreneurial environment with a lot of focus on business success. I'm one. The company I work at was like that, and has now shifted more towards the "beehive" described here. I call it "developer day care" and it doesn't motivate me in the slightest.