Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

gigaom.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 47 posts

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#21

Post by andrewflnr »

Does everyone who starts a political group have to work on or state an opinion on every problem connected to whatever broad policy category they're worried about? No, that would be crazy. It's okay if Zuck only cares about (or only makes noise about) skilled immigrants. Part of the reason we have a democracy is so people can watch out for their own interests. It's not as if there's no one speaking out for unskilled immigrants, and if there wasn't it wouldn't be Zuck's fault or anyone else's fault who only chooses to speak out on some other specific issue.

I have no particular love for Mark Zuckerberg, but really, there's nothing to see here. The system is working.

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#22

Post by johnnyb9 »

arindone wrote: post #14
dsl wrote: post #3

I find it interesting that Facebook wont hire a kid with a degree from a community college here in the US, but will fight tooth and nail to hire someone with a degree from an Indian college that Mark probably couldn't pronounce the name of.

Data? Source?

"Leading experts on the STEM workforce, including Richard Freeman of Harvard, Michael Teitelbaum of the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Paula Stephan of Georgia State University, Hal Salzman of Rutgers, Lindsay Lowell of Georgetown, and Norman Matloff of the University of California-Davis, have said for years that the US produces ample numbers of excellent science students. In fact, according to the National Science Board’s authoritative publication Science and Engineering Indicators 2008, the country turns out three times as many STEM degrees as the economy can absorb into jobs related to their majors."

http://www.cjr.org/reports/what_scientist_shortage.php?page=...

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#24

Post by trustfundbaby »

hobb0001 wrote: post #23

It's interesting how its always management that wants immigration reform; not the workers. On the one hand, it is management that does most of the hiring and are the ones tasked with finding talent. On the other hand, they're also tasked with keeping budgets low...

> It's always interesting how its always management that wants immigration reform, not the workers

I'm curious to know how you arrived at this conclusion? How many h1-b workers or students on f-1 visas have you actually spoken with that do not want immigration reform, because I can tell you that I've lived that life and know close to a hundred of those people and even though its a small sample size I don't know any of them that think the current state of immigration with respect to skilled workers is okay.

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#25

Post by jmspring »

snowwrestler wrote: post #8

Zuckerberg is not in a bubble...he has been meeting with immigration policy experts for years. He understands his role in the national immigration debate, and he is playing it very well. Many people have the goal of comprehensive immigration reform. To get it accomplished will take a lot of pushing from a lot of different directions. Zuckerberg, as the CEO of one of the most famous "new economy" innovative companies,…

If Zuck, as you claim, understands his role in the national immigration debate, he should also understand his limitations. As you point out, those include retraining and low-skilled jobs and he should be reaching out to others to provide a story around those issues. That populace is by far greater than the number impacted by H1Bs -- though H1Bs impact many knowledge workers that never adapted as technology necessitated.

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#26

Post by kozikow »

One of his arguments in my opinion is invalid. He tries to suggest that if USA would simply invest in education, especially in middle America, then USA would produce enough engineers to not have to import engineers from abroad.

However, my view is that not everyone, regardless of education, can be good software engineer. Almost all software engineers I know used to be very top at mathematics and science since the very first year of primary school. They didn't receive any superior education, but researched and learned things by themselves, very often against a lot of things that stood in their way, like no access to internet or much more obligations (like helping family on the farm) than kids in America.

Nowadays, when it is getting much easier to learn anything being anywhere in the world, just being born or educated in the USA loses it's value.

Remember, that USA is just about 5% of world population.

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#27

Post by crag »

"The economy of the last century was primarily based on natural resources, industrial machines and manual labor. It was an economy where many of these resources were zero sum and controlled by companies. If someone else had an oil field, then you did not. There are only so many oil fields, and there is only so much wealth that can be created from them for society. Today’s economy is very different. It is primarily based on knowledge and ideas — resources that are renewable and available to everyone."

Ok that's absurd. The economy today (and in the future) is based on resources. Period. It takes resources to produce ipads, food, sheets, clean water (even dirty water), cars, soap, condoms, films, power, etc, etc.

I mean, why do you think we maintain our huge Army? It's our abundance of resources that allow us and Zuckerberg to do what we/he does. And now out in the field gathering food.

Even when it all comes crashing down. It'll be a race for food, water, and salt. Not a race for webapps.

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#28

Post by chucknthem »

dsl wrote: post #3

I find it interesting that Facebook wont hire a kid with a degree from a community college here in the US, but will fight tooth and nail to hire someone with a degree from an Indian college that Mark probably couldn't pronounce the name of.

If a kid who only went to community college (or no tertiary education at all) has the skills to be a great programmer and can pass the interview, sure Facebook would hire them. It is harder to get noticed without a degree, so they might have to do more to show it by contributing to open source projects, winning programming contests or being referred by an employee, but once they're in the loop, it's fair game.

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#29

Post by fyi80 »

kozikow wrote: post #26

One of his arguments in my opinion is invalid. He tries to suggest that if USA would simply invest in education, especially in middle America, then USA would produce enough engineers to not have to import engineers from abroad. However, my view is that not everyone, regardless of education, can be good software engineer. Almost all software engineers I know used to be very top at mathematics and science since the ver…

And everyone who could be a good software engineer is succeeding? None of that talent is wasted on excessive obligations, or crime, or malnourishment?

Re: Why I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg’s FWD.us

#30

Post by fyi80 »

johnnyb9 wrote: post #22
arindone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data? Source?

"Leading experts on the STEM workforce, including Richard Freeman of Harvard, Michael Teitelbaum of the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Paula Stephan of Georgia State University, Hal Salzman of Rutgers, Lindsay Lowell of Georgetown, and Norman Matloff of the University of California-Davis, have said for years that the US produces ample numbers of excellent science students. In fact, according to the National Science Boar…

Figure 3-12 on http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind08/figures.htm#ch3

says that only 10% are involuntarily not employed in their field.

Post reply on HN