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Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

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Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#11

Post by jerf »

lmgftp wrote: post #4
ezyang wrote: post #2

Here is a puzzle for HNers. Suppose that I am a user who wants to anonymize some Bitcoins, and I am willing to wait expected time N before redeeming my Zerocoins. What is the correct probability distribution for me to pick my wait time from?

U[0,∞]

No such thing: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/14777/why-isnt-there...

Get far enough into Reflection on Relativity and the author makes some interesting observations based on this tidbit: http://www.mathpages.com/rr/rrtoc.htm (But it is quite a ways in there.)

Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#12

Post by davmre »

ezyang wrote: post #2

Here is a puzzle for HNers. Suppose that I am a user who wants to anonymize some Bitcoins, and I am willing to wait expected time N before redeeming my Zerocoins. What is the correct probability distribution for me to pick my wait time from?

This would depend on the distribution of times at which other people are minting and redeeming Zerocoins ... but under reasonable assumptions, you'd probably want to go with something like the exponential(1/N) distribution, since that's the maximum entropy distribution on [0,∞] having mean N (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_entropy_probability_dis...). This has the somewhat surprising property that the most likely time for you to redeem a Zerocoin is immediately after minting it!

Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#14

Post by lmgftp »

jerf wrote: post #11
lmgftp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U[0,∞]

No such thing: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/14777/why-isnt-there... Get far enough into Reflection on Relativity and the author makes some interesting observations based on this tidbit: http://www.mathpages.com/rr/rrtoc.htm (But it is quite a ways in there.)

Acknowledged. Mostly a facetious comment, as any known distribution could be found (over infinite time) and you'd only become pseudononymous (which is exactly what the original comment wouldn't like!)

On the other hand... It would be secure :) never withdraw. Anonymity through one way function/flow.

Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#16

Post by johndevor »

speeder wrote: post #10

I think that politically this is a awful time for that. Bitcoin is still largely unregulated, and this allow for all sorts of innovation, yet the media is already scaremongering around because it is "anonymous" and used for laundering and drug dealing. If Zerocoin attracts true media attention, then you will get a political firestorm of people claiming that someone is making Bitcoin even worse for nefarious purposes.…

I disagree. I think it is a good time to do this because it is still largely unregulated and not well understood. The media is already reporting this currency as being "crypto" or "anonymous" -- so Zerocoin is really nothing new to the media. They largely don't know the difference between pseudo-anonymity and the real thing.

Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#17

Post by mdelias »

dragontamer wrote: post #8

Since BTC is expected to be regulated like a currency, wouldn't participating in Zerocoin be basically money laundering? If that is the case, participating in the Zerocoin network itself would be a crime. I don't think this is going to go anywhere. And if it does, then hope that the Secret Service doesn't catch you even touching this stuff...

  Since BTC is expected to be regulated like a currency
Citation? The recent FinCEN statement [1] does not support your claim.

[1] http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001....

Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#18

Post by anonymoushn »

jerf wrote: post #11
lmgftp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U[0,∞]

No such thing: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/14777/why-isnt-there... Get far enough into Reflection on Relativity and the author makes some interesting observations based on this tidbit: http://www.mathpages.com/rr/rrtoc.htm (But it is quite a ways in there.)

Could you point out the problem with such a distribution? It isn't immediately obvious that I cannot satisfy both axioms.

Edit: The helpful explanation linked in a comment on the question you linked is defective because it applies to all continuous probability distributions.

Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#19

Post by dmix »

speeder wrote: post #10

I think that politically this is a awful time for that. Bitcoin is still largely unregulated, and this allow for all sorts of innovation, yet the media is already scaremongering around because it is "anonymous" and used for laundering and drug dealing. If Zerocoin attracts true media attention, then you will get a political firestorm of people claiming that someone is making Bitcoin even worse for nefarious purposes.…

Cryptography driven anonymity or subversion is not in need of PR sensitivity or timing. It is a technological progression that has been happening for decades and will continue on it's own rapid pace.

In this context of Zerocoin, they released a technology research paper. It should be treated as such. Not a company PR dept.

Re: Zerocoin: making Bitcoin anonymous

#20

Post by johndevor »

mdelias wrote: post #17
dragontamer wrote: post #8

Since BTC is expected to be regulated like a currency, wouldn't participating in Zerocoin be basically money laundering? If that is the case, participating in the Zerocoin network itself would be a crime. I don't think this is going to go anywhere. And if it does, then hope that the Secret Service doesn't catch you even touching this stuff...

Since BTC is expected to be regulated like a currency Citation? The recent FinCEN statement [1] does not support your claim. [1] http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001....

However, an administrator or exchanger is an MSB under FinCEN's regulations

Would they not try to claim that using Zerocoin is, in effect, making you an independent exchange? Or are you only an exchanger when going from Bitcoin to USD?

An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency.

There is this clause, but it only refers to businesses.

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