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My Startup Failed. Fuck.

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Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#31
post #19

So we talked to a few artists who said they thought it was a cool idea. BOOM! Our idea had been validated! Why was that sufficient data to justify spending months and months of your life bringing this startup to fruition? EDIT: I did not intend to make a sly insult toward the author. I've seen people do startups with similar justifications and I am confused.

This seems unkind. What data would you want? It's easy to jeer in hindsight, but frankly if focused and professional market research could reliably determine the existence of new markets there would be no need for a startup to find them . This very web site wouldn't exist. They played a hunch and lost. The linked post details lots of mistakes, but this particular one doesn't seem like one to me.

I agree that was unkind. But treating a little positive feedback as validation is, as the original author now clearly realizes, a giant mistake.

You've got a business when people repeatedly exchange value with you. Kind words are validation of a sort, but the weakest kind. To go from there to spending a year building a platform is basically hearing what you want to hear. Better not to ask than to believe what you hear uncritically; if you don't ask, at least you know you don't know.

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#32
post #16

Even the people at the very top of the value chain in the music industry --- the vanishingly small set of people who produce commercially viable music --- can't make the business work. So I'm curious as to why you'd have tried to start a company in music. Did you start before Dalton Caldwell's talk? I'm just interested in how people pick the ideas they pursue.

> Did you start before Dalton Caldwell's talk?

Who is this Dalton Caldwell, and why is he relevant?

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#33
post #21

"Dynamic pricing" -- does anyone really like that? I've seen reports of online booksellers (no, not Amazon) giving people different prices based on the account they use. No one really likes to feel like a sucker. EDIT to add: Some people might bring up airline tickets or hotel rooms. Limited analog inventory, not infinite digital inventory.

Analog? You mean planes and hotel rooms are non-quantized? Sorry, had to say that :) It's fun for me how analog/digital have become synonyms for material/virtual.

Even more fun because the material world seems to operate in mostly quantized steps at its most fundamental level.

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#34
post #16

Even the people at the very top of the value chain in the music industry --- the vanishingly small set of people who produce commercially viable music --- can't make the business work. So I'm curious as to why you'd have tried to start a company in music. Did you start before Dalton Caldwell's talk? I'm just interested in how people pick the ideas they pursue.

> Did you start before Dalton Caldwell's talk? Who is this Dalton Caldwell, and why is he relevant?

http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/20/imeem-founder-dalton-caldwe...

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#35
post #3

Reading about failures can be more illuminating and educational than reading about success. It's interesting to see how you reached a number of gateways where you could have terminated but instead continued to pursue your goals/dreams (despite going against what many would consider the logical conclusion to close). I wonder how many other business have adopted that strategy (of ignoring initial reduced interest in yo…

I think part of the difficulty of knowing when (or when not) to quit is that opportunity lurks even inside failure.

My first startup attempt was a coaching marketplace and community for poker players. My co-founder and I were both successful professional poker players and coaches at the time, but we were young (20ish) and all but clueless about technology. I still think the market opportunity was there, but we hired an agency who outsourced everything, made bad tech choices, took forever, and gave us a fraction of what we originally agreed on. I learned to program myself in order to complete a major component of the site (in flash) which they had just completely botched.

What we ended up with wasn't terrible, but it fell way short of the vision we had, and our marketing efforts fell mostly flat as well. We were able to recruit a few smart people to post and discuss hands here and there, and we wrote a few articles ourselves that showcased the flash hand analysis tool I had built (the best functioning aspect of the site), but we weren't getting any other traffic. There were a few bugs and an assortment of minor ux issues which made the site feel a bit clunky, and people's feedback was pretty unenthusiastic, so all in all we weren't feeling very good about the direction of things. It didn't take very long (maybe six weeks or so) before we threw in the towel.

It wasn't a complete failure--after all, I had learned how to program and discovered that I quite liked it (certainly much more than grinding poker online), and both of us had learned a lot of lessons about business and technology. But there was another lesson that we only discovered with time.

Even after we completely abandoned the site and it went dormant, I would still check google analytics from time to time to see if there was any traffic, and an interesting trend started to emerge: a few of the hand posts and articles we had posted were developing really steady search traffic. One article in particular was generating something like 20 uniques per day.

At that point, we were both just done with the whole endeavor and had no motivation to try to pick it up again, but we realized that if we had kept at it and continued to create more and more quality content, that we probably could have had an seo goldmine on our hands, developed reputations as poker strategy bloggers, and leveraged that into the community we had originally envisioned. Who knows if it would have gone that way, but it seems like there was at least a relatively unobstructed path to success available to us if we had been willing to stick it out and let the long tail kick in.

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#36

So we talked to a few artists who said they thought it was a cool idea. BOOM! Our idea had been validated! Why was that sufficient data to justify spending months and months of your life bringing this startup to fruition? EDIT: I did not intend to make a sly insult toward the author. I've seen people do startups with similar justifications and I am confused.

Getting to the point where an idea is truly validated by unbiased and honest customers is way, way more difficult than we all pretend like it is. I think the idea that you can figure out if your business is viable by talking to a few people can be just as dangerous as it can be helpful.

PPC + Landing page is typically promoted as a valuable tool for validation around here.

With launchrock + adwords this has become stupid easy.

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#37
post #16

Even the people at the very top of the value chain in the music industry --- the vanishingly small set of people who produce commercially viable music --- can't make the business work. So I'm curious as to why you'd have tried to start a company in music. Did you start before Dalton Caldwell's talk? I'm just interested in how people pick the ideas they pursue.

A friend of mine who worked for a venture fund expressed the theory that people tend to do startups based on things they like a lot. Since many startup founders are young guys, this leads to an oversupply of startups in things that are young-guy-ish, like music and video games.

The notion was that both VCs and founders should look at broad markets and dig in to find opportunities. As Bezos did back in the day with books. Less fun initially, sure, but taking one's company behind the barn is definitely not fun.

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#38
post #3

Reading about failures can be more illuminating and educational than reading about success. It's interesting to see how you reached a number of gateways where you could have terminated but instead continued to pursue your goals/dreams (despite going against what many would consider the logical conclusion to close). I wonder how many other business have adopted that strategy (of ignoring initial reduced interest in yo…

I think part of the difficulty of knowing when (or when not) to quit is that opportunity lurks even inside failure. My first startup attempt was a coaching marketplace and community for poker players. My co-founder and I were both successful professional poker players and coaches at the time, but we were young (20ish) and all but clueless about technology. I still think the market opportunity was there, but we hired…

Startups often live on the cusp of 'other people think we should quit but we're not going to!' I appreciated these sorts of posts because they are illustrative. The only thing to be bothered by is if you don't find anything to learn from the experience.

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#39
post #19

So we talked to a few artists who said they thought it was a cool idea. BOOM! Our idea had been validated! Why was that sufficient data to justify spending months and months of your life bringing this startup to fruition? EDIT: I did not intend to make a sly insult toward the author. I've seen people do startups with similar justifications and I am confused.

This seems unkind. What data would you want? It's easy to jeer in hindsight, but frankly if focused and professional market research could reliably determine the existence of new markets there would be no need for a startup to find them . This very web site wouldn't exist. They played a hunch and lost. The linked post details lots of mistakes, but this particular one doesn't seem like one to me.

> What data would you want?

The data that was lost right here: "After that moment we basically stopped talking to artists for a year [...]"

Find customers as early as possible, engage with them as often as possible, and really really listen to what's being said. This is a huge benefit of bootstrapping. Customer engagement from the earliest possible time is vital to the process of transforming an idea into a product.

Re: My Startup Failed. Fuck.

#40
post #3

Reading about failures can be more illuminating and educational than reading about success. It's interesting to see how you reached a number of gateways where you could have terminated but instead continued to pursue your goals/dreams (despite going against what many would consider the logical conclusion to close). I wonder how many other business have adopted that strategy (of ignoring initial reduced interest in yo…

So, I guess I'll be the wet blanket here. It's pretty clear to me reading this that this person and their partner were nowhere near ready to found a startup. It highlighted the potential benefits for some people of getting a corporate(ish) job, learning about the business world, and learning the trade a little more before trying to starting a company.

It's like the demotivator for "Mistakes", this is probably best as a cautionary tail for people that have a startup itch, but don't necessarily have the necessary skills yet. I mean, this really talked about business and technology problems, but even assume they hit lighting in a bottle with the business model and didn't run into the technical issues, does it sounds like they would have been able to capitalize on it? I got a feeling that it was organized in an ad hoc way, and they weren't set up as an llc/s-corp/etc, had equity agreements, or basic contracts (otherwise, how did the one artist change not know they terms of the business, or opt out so quickly?) I feel like they would have ended up in trouble with the IRS, in a lawsuit with each other, or getting screwed by a less than scrupulous VC.

That said, everyone is better off from sharing, and I thank the author for it.

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