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Bitcoin falls from $266

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381–390 of 505 posts

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#381
post #350
post #135

Evidently, many hoarders/speculators decided to cash out at once -- much like the audience in a movie theater would try to go through the exit door at the same time if someone were to yell "fire!" The naive souls who recently bought bitcoins to make a 'quick buck' are in for a rude surprise. In the short run, no one knows how Bitcoin's price will fluctuate. In the long run, however, if Bitcoin continues to work as in…

>> someone were to yell "fire!" Who did yell this time? >> the more people around the world who adopt it Who shall be those people ? Are we, by any chance, thinking that we should count the people in mining bitcoins or adopting a currency based on algorithms(let alone the talk about encryption/bits/bytes/code) which they do not have an iota of idea about? Or are we considering that "naah, it's not for them 'non-techi…

Agreed. I don't trust the dollar as investment and I don't understand why people consider bitcoin something worth investing in. Sure, for trading stuff between techies it looks fair enough but it'll never reach the general public.

The whole banking system works hard to earn the customers' trust and any small mistake damages that. Bitcoin doesn't provide any assurances, support, etc...

Looks like another fad the computer industry created for its own amusement. Let's see how long it lasts. I'm sure all the revolutionaries out there fighting the man will come up with solutions for the trust issues.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same as the dollar and euro then. They are not backed by anything except the status quo.

The dollar is backed by the word of the most powerful organization in the history of civilization. If that doesn't have value, what does?

No, it's not backed in the sense that it has a concrete value. No one is guaranteeing that a US dollar will buy you exactly a gallon of gas, an ounce of gold, or a bushel of wheat or anything like that.

It is "backed" in the sense that people need it to pay taxes, but exactly how much value that gives it is completely uncertain and only determined by the supply and demand of people spending it/accepting it. If there were to be a major economic shift, the value could change to be literally anything relative to the value of other goods (without the supply and demand of those goods actually changing.) It could even completely collapse and be worth nothing under the right conditions.

If it was actually backed in the traditional sense it would be guaranteed to be worth some amount of some good or combination of goods, regardless what happens, regardless how many people are spending it or accepting it.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#383
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> paranoia MtGox has said they were subject to DDoS attacks: https://twitter.com/MagicalTux/status/317423311174909954 > If you looked at the log plot[2], it still looked exponential! Trying to divine future price movement from looking at a graph has been proven definitively, repeatedly to be foolish.

Right.. Because a DDoS on their site should create a trading lag in their backend engine? Are they running on 1 server?

It's unclear, but it seems in any case the separation is weak

http://www.facebook.com/MtGox/posts/453409538076792

"There are a few things that we can implement to help fight the attacks, such as disconnecting the trade engine backend from the Internet. By separating the data center from the Mt.Gox website, we will continue to be able to trade"

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#384
post #126
post #21

Don't worry! It won't ever fall below its intrinsic value!

In some ways the price is tied to the cost of electricity needed to mine a coin. Granted, the mining "price" is usually about two weeks behind the actual price, and the electricity required is variable based on the current sum of computational power being used by all the miners, so there's certainly some disconnect.

It's the other way around. The cost of electricity needed to mine a coin will tend towards the price that coin can be sold for. If the bitcoin price drops significantly, then the least efficient miners will become unprofitable and drop out, and the difficulty will reduce.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#385
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're fighting an uphill battle. On a deeply, delusionally paranoid hill.

What a pessimist you are. I would not want to live in your world. In mine, in the hypothetical case we will need to fight for Bitcoin, we will, like we did against the SOPA bill. The government is made for the people. Don't you forget that.

>You misunderstand me. I meant it was an uphill battle to argue to all the paranoid people that the U.S. government has yet to outlaw trading in Yen, Euro, etc, even though it doesn't control those currencies either.

What exactly gave you the right to call me "paranoid"?

The fact that I said the US might ban the Bitcoin?

For one, the Bitcoin is NOT like the Euro or the Yen at all. It doesn't have any government to back it, and it has properties that make it not very likable to any large government.

Banning bitcoin wont be like banning Euro or the Yen, which are legitimate, sovereign national currencies.

It would be like banning or freezing assets in off-shore accounts (which governments have been known to do). Or like banning the private buying of gold (which the US had done, from 1933 to mid-seventies:

"Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933, by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Private / alternative currencies have been banned in several cases all over the world. One example from Wikipedia:

In Australia, the Bank Notes Tax Act of 1910 practically shut down the circulation of private currencies by imposing a prohibitive tax on the practice. It was later repealed and a fine imposed for private currencies (Commonwealth Bank Act 1945). Many other nations have similar such policies to eliminate private sector competition.

Or:

The co-operative society Jord Arbejde Kapital was founded in Denmark during the Great Depression in 1931. The society issued a popular local currency which was subsequently outlawed by the Danish government in 1933.

Not to mention that the whole idea that the US doesn't care at all about Yen and Euros is flawed BS. The US would very much like to keep the dollar unthreatened as the "golden world standard". But those currencies belong to very large economies and countries for the US to be able to do anything about it. Not to mention that the Yen is tied to the dollar in intricate ways nowadays (Chinese own trillions of it).

Still, when any third world or developing country expresses a desire to do business in Euros (something that happened oftentimes before the Euro crisis), the US exerts as much political and diplomatic pressure as it can to have them revert course.

So, using the fact that the US does not ban the Yen and the Euro as an "argument" why it cannot ban bitcoin? Really, not the very best in informed thinking. To call one "paranoid" about arguing the possibility of the bitcoin ban? Even worse (and rude to top).

You might as well say that since the US hasn't entered a war with China or EU, it will never enter a war with a terrorist group operating outside any government. Seeing that China and EU are huge countries/unions, whereas the Bitcoin community is just an ad-hoc random assembly of people investing on an alternative monetary system.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#387
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary this is just the most pronounced in a series of recent coordinated DDOS / aggressive selling attacks designed to (successfully) inspire panic. The attackers unload their bitcoin before the price gets smashed and presumably buy it all back again from frightened speculators. If anything it might be a positive sign for bitcoin that the attackers are keen to acquire it! On another note, mtgox.com the main…

>> "If anything it might be a positive sign for bitcoin that the attackers are keen to acquire it!" I don't think it inherently implies anything of the sort. There is nothing to suggest that they believe in Bitcoin or care about it. If your suggestions are true, the only thing we know is that they are playing a very, very easy game of manipulation for financial gain. I don't see that as a positive for Bitcoin and thi…

If there's enough financial gain to be had by manipulating Bitcoin to interest market manipulators, that means the Bitcoin market has more money available in it than, say, two years ago.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#388
post #169
post #135

Evidently, many hoarders/speculators decided to cash out at once -- much like the audience in a movie theater would try to go through the exit door at the same time if someone were to yell "fire!" The naive souls who recently bought bitcoins to make a 'quick buck' are in for a rude surprise. In the short run, no one knows how Bitcoin's price will fluctuate. In the long run, however, if Bitcoin continues to work as in…

On the contrary this is just the most pronounced in a series of recent coordinated DDOS / aggressive selling attacks designed to (successfully) inspire panic. The attackers unload their bitcoin before the price gets smashed and presumably buy it all back again from frightened speculators. If anything it might be a positive sign for bitcoin that the attackers are keen to acquire it! On another note, mtgox.com the main…

I hope a more able exchange arrives soon.

It would be possible to create a GLD-style ETF around Bitcoin and it would be as an accurate reflection of the real price as possible. But why bother?

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#389
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a pessimist you are. I would not want to live in your world. In mine, in the hypothetical case we will need to fight for Bitcoin, we will, like we did against the SOPA bill. The government is made for the people. Don't you forget that.

> You misunderstand me. I meant it was an uphill battle to argue to all the paranoid people that the U.S. government has yet to outlaw trading in Yen, Euro, etc, even though it doesn't control those currencies either. What exactly gave you the right to call me "paranoid"? The fact that I said the US might ban the Bitcoin? For one, the Bitcoin is NOT like the Euro or the Yen at all. It doesn't have any government to b…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#390
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a pessimist you are. I would not want to live in your world. In mine, in the hypothetical case we will need to fight for Bitcoin, we will, like we did against the SOPA bill. The government is made for the people. Don't you forget that.

> You misunderstand me. I meant it was an uphill battle to argue to all the paranoid people that the U.S. government has yet to outlaw trading in Yen, Euro, etc, even though it doesn't control those currencies either. What exactly gave you the right to call me "paranoid"? The fact that I said the US might ban the Bitcoin? For one, the Bitcoin is NOT like the Euro or the Yen at all. It doesn't have any government to b…

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