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Bitcoin falls from $266

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Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#171

Post by crapshoot101 »

jessriedel wrote: post #111
richardwhiuk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USD are backed by the fact that US citizens have to pay in USD to pay their taxes. Bitcoins have no such imperative.

My Econ 101 understanding is that the value of USD is not primarily due to taxes, i.e. if the government stopped collecting taxes (or started forcing people to pay taxes in gold or Euros) the value of the dollar would not tank. Instead, we're in a Nash equilibrium where we're all accepting dollars as a means of exchange and it would be costly and have little benefit for individuals to defect. The intrinsic value of t…

correct in a sense- the US dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government, nothing more. Would I still have that faith in the US $ if the government did not collect taxes / did not seem like a stable entity? Probably not, but your point is still valid

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#172

Post by niggler »

eksith wrote: post #146

BTC crashed primarily because the market suddenly got flooded by Bitcoinbillionaire : http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/bitcoin-crashes-losi... This bares repeating... The value of BTC is in the nature of the transaction; not the currency itself. People have turned BTC into a commodity instead of actually bloody spending it. Their old fashioned thinking still ties it to traditional fiat like a smoker trying to…

Who is satoshi nakamoto?

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#173

Post by throwawayG9 »

mikeash wrote: post #123
epscylonb wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the exchange allows international traders then the price will equalise with the rest of the world due to arbitrage.

Arbitrage here implies the ability to move money in or out of the country using ways other than bitcoin.

First world people give so many things for granted. =/

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#174

Post by jerf »

hcho wrote: post #110
dragonwriter wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If all of the population decided to not pay taxes tomorrow, what power US government has to make them pay up? If all the population did that, that would mean the government had decided that. The population and the government aren't disjoint sets.

So you too are saying government is there by populations consent. Taxes and USD are by products of that consent. So is bitcoin, or any other medium of exchange really.

No, it's not just backed by mere consent. Try not paying your taxes. It's backed by the people who will make good on those promises by force.

It is true that nothing absolutely guarantees the value of the US dollar in the strongest absolute sense, but that's true of absolutely everything. There are no absolute stores of value that are guaranteed. (This bothers a lot of people, but it's true.) But there's a qualitative difference between being backed by the US government and being backed by nothing at all, a very substantial one.

I would point out that one of the usual things touted in BitCoin's favor is precisely that fiat currency can be arbitrarily manipulated by governments; this is possible because the backer of a currency can manipulate said currency, in a way that I cannot. On the other hand, I can arbitrarily issue and manipulate JerfDollars, but nobody takes them. (Not even me.) One of the things BitCoin tries to solve is precisely that people don't like what's backing the US Dollar, and they'd rather try something else. If it were indeed a backingless currency precisely like the US Dollar, the entire point of BitCoin goes up in smoke; what's the difference between two backingless currencies? Not much. In trying to claim that the two currencies are identical in this fashion, you may win the battle but you lose the war entirely.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#175

Post by ghshephard »

sneak wrote: post #158
ghshephard wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is HUGE news on Bitcoin - nothing like this has ever happened in it's history. Market went from $250 to $110 in 5 hours. MtGox was down for 30 minutes today. Trading lag was 600 seconds for orders placed at market prices. April 10th, 2013 may be the day that will be remember for the next 20 years as the day that Bitcoin crashed and either (A) never recovered or (B) kept progressing after an incredible Blip. Defi…

> nothing like this has ever happened in it's history Completely false. The curve mirrors the speculative run-up from $0.50 to $30 pretty closely... the LAST time bitcoin's market scaled an order of magnitude. It's happened before. It will happen again.

I stand corrected - this has happened once before in Bitcoin's history, so apparently there have been two times in which Bitcoin price changes have been suitable HN fodder.

Though, now, it's a $1B+ valuation and in the New York Times.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#176

Post by jcoder »

eksith wrote: post #146

BTC crashed primarily because the market suddenly got flooded by Bitcoinbillionaire : http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/bitcoin-crashes-losi... This bares repeating... The value of BTC is in the nature of the transaction; not the currency itself. People have turned BTC into a commodity instead of actually bloody spending it. Their old fashioned thinking still ties it to traditional fiat like a smoker trying to…

You actually had it right the first time—"bears repeating"

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#177

Post by jcomis »

wting wrote: post #17

I'm interested in the price of Bitcoin, but we don't need these daily submissions. If you're interested in following the price, I suggest these links: - https://bitcoinity.org/markets - http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD - http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ If you're interested in talking about the price, try #bitcoin-pricetalk on Freenode.

http://realtimebitcoin.info/ is another good one to watch

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#178

Post by cpressey »

Retric wrote: post #152
cs702 wrote: post #135

Evidently, many hoarders/speculators decided to cash out at once -- much like the audience in a movie theater would try to go through the exit door at the same time if someone were to yell "fire!" The naive souls who recently bought bitcoins to make a 'quick buck' are in for a rude surprise. In the short run, no one knows how Bitcoin's price will fluctuate. In the long run, however, if Bitcoin continues to work as in…

Assuming that bit-coin is not passed over for a more useful digital currency at which point the network fails and the total value of all bit-coins falls to 0.

I wonder if the value would ever fall to precisely zero. Mightn't they still have value as a novelty or collector's item? Like, "Hey, a Bitcoin! I remember those... sure, I'll buy one, just to say I have one." It's unfortunate that you couldn't mount it in a decorative frame, though.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#179

Post by dubfan »

dia80 wrote: post #169
cs702 wrote: post #135

Evidently, many hoarders/speculators decided to cash out at once -- much like the audience in a movie theater would try to go through the exit door at the same time if someone were to yell "fire!" The naive souls who recently bought bitcoins to make a 'quick buck' are in for a rude surprise. In the short run, no one knows how Bitcoin's price will fluctuate. In the long run, however, if Bitcoin continues to work as in…

On the contrary this is just the most pronounced in a series of recent coordinated DDOS / aggressive selling attacks designed to (successfully) inspire panic. The attackers unload their bitcoin before the price gets smashed and presumably buy it all back again from frightened speculators. If anything it might be a positive sign for bitcoin that the attackers are keen to acquire it! On another note, mtgox.com the main…

Do you have any evidence at all of a coordinated attack against Bitcoin, or is this just an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory?

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#180

Post by foobarqux »

dia80 wrote: post #169
cs702 wrote: post #135

Evidently, many hoarders/speculators decided to cash out at once -- much like the audience in a movie theater would try to go through the exit door at the same time if someone were to yell "fire!" The naive souls who recently bought bitcoins to make a 'quick buck' are in for a rude surprise. In the short run, no one knows how Bitcoin's price will fluctuate. In the long run, however, if Bitcoin continues to work as in…

On the contrary this is just the most pronounced in a series of recent coordinated DDOS / aggressive selling attacks designed to (successfully) inspire panic. The attackers unload their bitcoin before the price gets smashed and presumably buy it all back again from frightened speculators. If anything it might be a positive sign for bitcoin that the attackers are keen to acquire it! On another note, mtgox.com the main…

What evidence do you have of this claim?
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