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Computerists

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Re: Computerists

#51

Post by derleth »

jmduke wrote: post #2

There's the old quote attributed to Djikstra: Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. But who cares about titles, really? Why do they matter? The article makes the claim that you can tell someone's not a scientist if they have 'scientist' in their title. I'd argue for a corollary: you can tell someone probably doesn't deserve their title if they spend any significant amount of…

> Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes.

I prefer:

Computer science is no more about computers than thermodynamics is about engines.

Re: Computerists

#52

Post by clebio »

rhizome wrote: post #38
tgflynn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in many industries, defense and aerospace in particular, systems engineers are people who integrate multiple technologies to build systems (such as an aircraft or missile). They don't manage computer systems.

Are we talking about those industries? It's a valid title for many sectors, and is perfectly cromulent for OS/Neteng roles.

well, when you're searching tech job boards, it sure matters. As (another) Systems Engineer (in the sense of Von Bertalanffy not Von Neumann), searching for relevant jobs is a _huge_ annoyance. I've given up on titles, and search for, or look at, job descriptions, filtering mentally the various keywords that are positive and negative indicators for what I do (feedback controls, operations research, etc.).

Re: Computerists

#53

Post by willismichael »

VLM wrote: post #39
learc83 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people who get a BS in computer science (not as a stepping stone to a PHD or whatever, etc) end up on helpdesks, maybe pulling cable or replacing mice... I'm gonna need to see some evidence to back that up before I believe it. Based on the experiences of everyone I know with a CS degree, that is completely wrong. Are you confusing CS with CIS? >maybe $8/hr no benes at a call center but at least more or less in…

I tried googling around and cannot find any direct evidence. I will say there is a feast/famine effect and right now in the hot areas looks better than I've seen since the late 90s.

> late 90s

Ahh, that explains it.

Re: Computerists

#54

Post by davidcuddeback »

fusiongyro wrote: post #23
oskarth wrote: post #4

Countries with the word 'democratic' in them: - People's Democratic Republic of Algeria - Congo, Democratic Republic of the - East Timor – Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste - Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia - Korea, North – Democratic People's Republic of Korea - Laos – Lao People's Democratic Republic - Nepal – Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal - São Tomé and Príncipe – Democratic Republic of São Tomé an…

I think we call this phenomenon "marketing."

I was going to go with Post Hoc Naming, because the choice of name invites the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy [1]: "Oh, they must be a democratic nation, because it's in their name."

Alternatively, "Me Too" Naming.

[1] http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/post-hoc/

Re: Computerists

#56

Post by blasdel »

I use "Beep Boop" as my umbrella term

It's particularly good as an initial answer to "what do you do", especially accompanied by a hunt-and-peck typing pantomime.

Re: Computerists

#57

Post by rhizome »

acomar wrote: post #44
rhizome wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can generalize that argument to practically anything Maybe, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm arguing for an implied "More-" before "democratic." That's what I mean by context.

Several of the listed countries aren't democratic in any sense of the word. Even with context the argument is still absurd -- we intend to communicate meaning with the words we use, and the introductory paragraph in the OP and the comment you replied to both highlight cases where what a word means and how its use are unrelated.

The sense with which you hear the word and the way the citizens hear it may be different.

Re: Computerists

#58

Post by rhizome »

clebio wrote: post #52
rhizome wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about those industries? It's a valid title for many sectors, and is perfectly cromulent for OS/Neteng roles.

well, when you're searching tech job boards, it sure matters. As (another) Systems Engineer (in the sense of Von Bertalanffy not Von Neumann), searching for relevant jobs is a _huge_ annoyance. I've given up on titles, and search for, or look at, job descriptions, filtering mentally the various keywords that are positive and negative indicators for what I do (feedback controls, operations research, etc.).

That goes for all of my job hunts too, but it doesn't mean I'm not whatever a simplified title of my skills implies.

Re: Computerists

#59

Post by demian »

as_if wrote: post #47
demian wrote: post #13

Comment: In English there is a split between Software Engineering and Computer Science. German uses the word Informatik which comprises both disciplines. It's the same for most of continental Europe. There is theory and research focused areas like computing or computational mathematics, and there is application, informatics (more similar to a CS degree) or informatics engineering (roughly an EECS degree, or a CS&SE w…

lol yeah, but you could make such assumptions (who calls himself a scientist isn't one) in german too :D Biologen Mediziner Chemiker Mathematiker Informatiker Wirtschaftswisseschaftler Kulturwissenschaftler Medienwissenschaftler etc. ;)

I didn't made any assumptions about that :p

Re: Computerists

#60

Post by ggchappell »

I agree about the unsuitability of terms like "computer science". I'm a professor of computer science. I'd rather be a "professor of informatics", but C.S. is the term we're stuck with. And after all, it isn't really that bad; the main downside is that people I meet at parties think my job is teaching people to use MS-Word. (I used to be a professor of mathematics; the misconceptions about that one are scary.)

In any case, I'd like to point out that this use of "science", while not in accord with the most common usage of the term, is not actually dishonest. Rather, it harkens back to an older use of "science" as a more general term for knowledge related to some field of study.[1]

[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/science - see English noun definitions 1 & 2.

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