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Is it Time for Mutiny?

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Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#11

Post by ChuckMcM »

ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #3

Let's say a "friend" of mine works for a company of about 100 people. There would be clear lines of demarcation between departments, management, and responsibility but that is not what ownership wants. Instead they run a flat system where the patriarch (of the family that owns the company): * bypasses all "managers" to assign tasks direct to the employee * never has a meeting asking for suggested fixes, just what he…

Interesting comment, you are thinking too much "inside the box" though. There is the kind of mutiny (which is common in Silicon Valley) where a strategic chunk of the "crew" (aka the employess) believe in the goal but not the management and so they leave as a group to re-create the same enterprise they are in, but with a better (for them) management structure.

This sort of strategic mutiny is made possible in California by its employee friendly laws which make "non-compete" clauses unenforceable and ownership claims over work the employee does outside the office difficult.

In the case of a small company, strategic mutinies like this can be fatal to the original company because often times expertise is concentrated into a single individual. When management is aware of that, it is sometimes possible to 'mutiny in place' where a meeting with management is held where the choice is provided to change or potentially lose the entire company. Such mutinies have a somewhat more checkered outcome of the ones I've been aware of (two succeeded and three "failed" in that the strategic group ended up walking out anyway). In larger companies a group of 10 - 15 folks can walk out and cause pain but not a mortal wound to the parent company.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#12

Post by walshemj »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #11
ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #3

Let's say a "friend" of mine works for a company of about 100 people. There would be clear lines of demarcation between departments, management, and responsibility but that is not what ownership wants. Instead they run a flat system where the patriarch (of the family that owns the company): * bypasses all "managers" to assign tasks direct to the employee * never has a meeting asking for suggested fixes, just what he…

Interesting comment, you are thinking too much "inside the box" though. There is the kind of mutiny (which is common in Silicon Valley) where a strategic chunk of the "crew" (aka the employess) believe in the goal but not the management and so they leave as a group to re-create the same enterprise they are in, but with a better (for them) management structure. This sort of strategic mutiny is made possible in Califor…

Yes the traitorous 8 forming fairchild is a classic example from SV's past

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#14

Post by ChikkaChiChi »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #11
ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #3

Let's say a "friend" of mine works for a company of about 100 people. There would be clear lines of demarcation between departments, management, and responsibility but that is not what ownership wants. Instead they run a flat system where the patriarch (of the family that owns the company): * bypasses all "managers" to assign tasks direct to the employee * never has a meeting asking for suggested fixes, just what he…

Interesting comment, you are thinking too much "inside the box" though. There is the kind of mutiny (which is common in Silicon Valley) where a strategic chunk of the "crew" (aka the employess) believe in the goal but not the management and so they leave as a group to re-create the same enterprise they are in, but with a better (for them) management structure. This sort of strategic mutiny is made possible in Califor…

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately for the situation stated, the startup capital involved is more significant since they are an online retailer in a very popular, but very expensive hobby.

In this case, I think a mutiny is far less likely because the valuation of talent is far less than its true worth. In this case, the staff just needs to win back their own confidence that they are good enough to find a place where they may be appreciated more as opposed to teaching an old dog new tricks.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#15

Post by ChikkaChiChi »

profpjm wrote: post #8
ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #3

Let's say a "friend" of mine works for a company of about 100 people. There would be clear lines of demarcation between departments, management, and responsibility but that is not what ownership wants. Instead they run a flat system where the patriarch (of the family that owns the company): * bypasses all "managers" to assign tasks direct to the employee * never has a meeting asking for suggested fixes, just what he…

great comment. mutiny was viewed extremely differently in the age of discovery, even positively. seafarers were extremely clever about it and so were leaders. it is possible to depose authority in a setting like you describe but not via the current dominant view or what it means to depose authority. a mutiny, done very strategically, can be constructive. but it needs to flow from the culture of the organization in wh…

Yes!

Recently an outside corporate executive from a competitor was brought on board and the first thing he marvelled at was the lack of any sort of culture the place had. To him, it felt more like a gas station than the hip place he had come from.

The company is in a very "young" niche (extreme sports retail) so to see something more akin to a 70's office pool blew his mind.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#16

Post by ChikkaChiChi »

VexXtreme wrote: post #9

In my company there was recently a successful case of mutiny where an incompetent project manager was removed from a project and subsequently made to leave the company. Long story short, the guy was making stupid technical decisions (some of which were incredibly harmful to the project), he was unable to complete his tasks within a reasonable timespan, he was dictatorial and argumentative with other developers despit…

Fantastic example and it sounds like it went well.

What about if "guy" == "son and "boss" == "father"? Any tips? :)

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#17

Post by michaelochurch »

I've seen more corporate mutiny attempts in a few years than most people do in their lives. If you want mutiny, you have to divide power against itself. Power wants to unite. It wants the competition to be between it and the outside because that's the unfair kind that it can always win. Creating competition within power forces them into fights they might actually lose. They don't like that. So it's hard.

The problem with deposing bad leadership is that it usually likes being bad, because it's more fun for such people to be arbitrary, capricious and mean than to actually hold themselves responsible for making good decisions. You're going to have to find a "good guy" executive to lead the fight and, often, there aren't any. They've all been driven out, and bad guys or apathetic people remain (most corporate execs aren't "evil" in the sadistic sense, but merely apathetic and corruptible.)

Effective corporate mutinies don't come from rabble-rousing. They come from executive turmoil. You have to create a Red Team and a Blue Team and set them against each other in an all-out war with no quarter and existential stakes. Warning: you'll probably lose your job even if your side wins.

Usually, successful corporate mutinies lead to the winning executive contingent becoming powerful, but their supporters (including those who started the mutiny) being the thrown-aside "useful idiots". So that's another problem with it.

I love the idea of corporate mutiny, but I've also seen enough to realize that it rarely works. It's better to just let brain-drain take care of it (and be part of the drain, too).

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#18

Post by profpjm »

michaelochurch wrote: post #17

I've seen more corporate mutiny attempts in a few years than most people do in their lives. If you want mutiny, you have to divide power against itself. Power wants to unite. It wants the competition to be between it and the outside because that's the unfair kind that it can always win. Creating competition within power forces them into fights they might actually lose. They don't like that. So it's hard. The problem…

excellent comments. it does rarely work. those mutinies for reasons similar to why entrepreneurial ventures fail. success rate is about the same. secrecy, strategy, timing. an idea that is defensible. established elements are threatened by it. try to crush it. risk, etc.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#20

Post by fghh45sdfhr3 »

ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #16
VexXtreme wrote: post #9

In my company there was recently a successful case of mutiny where an incompetent project manager was removed from a project and subsequently made to leave the company. Long story short, the guy was making stupid technical decisions (some of which were incredibly harmful to the project), he was unable to complete his tasks within a reasonable timespan, he was dictatorial and argumentative with other developers despit…

Fantastic example and it sounds like it went well. What about if "guy" == "son and "boss" == "father"? Any tips? :)

Find another job. Not just with "son and father" but also with genetically unrelated cronies.
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