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AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

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Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#121
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The network is managed, and I think wisely so, in a way that EWZ grants equal access to private ISPs which then compete for customers. They don't act as an ISP. This is the model I see as ideal and it always baffles me why it's so rarely mentioned as an option. Make the fiber network a public grid like roads, water, sewer, power. Then sell access to private companies to deal with the connectivity, services (TV/VoIP…

I don't understand why the cities would give so much free stuff to Google for them to set up their fiber network instead of just... setting up their own fiber network that's then actually owned by the public. Because cities don't have the first clue about running a fiber network. As is the case with most of the other stuff they get involved in.

[deleted]

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#122

This reminds me a bit of the situation we had in Zurich. The (city owned) electric utility had a few hundred million reserves and decided to invest it into a fiber network. Actually - since the utility was owned by the city - the decision was based on a popular referendum, which sailed through. Needless to say that the established telcos and cable providers fought tooth and nail to kill the referendum. The interestin…

> The network is managed, and I think wisely so, in a way that EWZ grants equal access to private ISPs which then compete for customers. They don't act as an ISP. This is the model I see as ideal and it always baffles me why it's so rarely mentioned as an option. Make the fiber network a public grid like roads, water, sewer, power. Then sell access to private companies to deal with the connectivity, services (TV/VoIP…

Because in many states, like Texas, the incumbent carriers have lobbied for, and received, legislation that prevents municipalities from doing just that: http://www.baller.com/pdfs/BallerHerbstStateBarriers%287-1-1...

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#123

Here in the UK, we have a peculiar paradox regarding the rollout of fibre. We have what amounts to a telecoms duopoly, split between the old telephone monopoly (BT) and the sole national cable company (Virgin Media). BT cover every home, but Virgin Media serve only the most populous areas. BT are progressively upgrading their POTS network, while Virgin's network was FTTC from the start. BT only bother upgrading areas…

What's absurd about it? It doesn't cost dramatically more to wire up a mile of fiber in a dense urban area (and in fact can be cheaper if you can re-use existing utility conduits), but can hit far more customers. So why shouldn't you expect fiber providers to only hit the densely populated areas? And you can have government intervention, but much of the US's woes are the result of that intervention. US municipalities…

It is absurd because if BT or AT&T wanted to upgrade certain areas to the new network to improve service to their consumers and gain additional profits out of it, they wouldn't choose cities where there already is a competitor with an equivalent fast network.

For example, if AT&T is convinced they are capable of providing a speedy 1 Gbps network, when Google announced they were going to Kansas City last year, AT&T could have decided to go to Austin and improve their service in the area.

However, this is not how it's playing out at all. Instead of choosing another densely populated area (only 2 cities in the US have this type of network, so there's plenty to choose from), they select (or signal) they will go only to where the competition is, and that is pretty absurd IMHO (not from a gaming theory perspective though).

Either way, Google's strategy in this case is flawless, and regardless of what other network providers do, it signals to the consumers that the technology is available and at reasonable costs. Therefore, it will start creating the push for network upgrades in cities where Google never intended to go in the first place at all, which is what this is all about. Having a fast and reliable network available to as many users as possible serves Google's interests (incidentally the consumers needs too), and that's what they are pushing for.

Regarding AT&T, they are signaling being willing to bring to the ground any business models relying on such upgrades, which as relevant as it could be to Comcast or Verizon, it's meaningless to Google as these investments are literally sunk money to defend their traditional business model.

In the same way they already defended in the past for other entrenched markets which could undermine their advertising business model, such as: Android (mobile market, avoiding iOS powerful position) or Chrome (internet browsers and default search provider settings).

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#124
post #30
post #2

I am so glad Google is putting AT&T (and the other broadband providers) in the hot seat. Sadly I don't think San Francisco will get Google Fiber anytime soon. Why is it we don't even have Verizon FIOS?!

Because this is what happens when you try to do stuff like that in the Bay Area: http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2011/11/15/no-att-lightspeed-inter...

The NIMBYs are pretty terrible. The best part is how you won't see a single solitary wind turbine in the "bay area" proper, but as soon as you start heading up Altamont on I-580, BAM everywhere. It's ok though, it's just the central valley out there, hicks deserve it.

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#125
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its bias. I cannot get DSL, CABLE, Fiber-anything... My choices are: Dialup, Satellite, or wireless internet. I can get 3G cell coverage -- sometimes. My street does have cable television, they just refuse to service the area with internet access. My country has an exclusivity agreement with this cable provider, so no other providers can come into the area. The sickening factor for me is the fact that I…

> My county has an exclusivity agreement with this cable provider, so no other providers can come into the area I see this over and over, and I don't understand WHY a local government would ever do this. What do they get out of these exclusivity deals? Meanwhile in my old town in Sweden, the city-owned power company built a supplier-neutral fiber network to promote competition (and a price war).

Grant County, in Washington state, did the same thing. The Public Utility District (the power company) built a county-wide fiber network; local ISPs have sprung up to sell access. My parents use a microwave link to the top of a nearby mountain range, where a tower ties them into the fiber net. Speeds aren't great, but when the other choices are satellite or dialup, it's pretty good.

It probably helped that Grant County has several hydro dams in it and sells power all over the place... I assume the PUD was pretty well-funded in this effort.

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#126
This whole thing is really sad. Fiber is such a long-term investment in a city's infrastructure that it should be a public utility. Let all the ISPs compete to sell service over the public fiber infrastructure, don't let the infrastucture rollout languish in the hands of people who are only looking for short-term profits.

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#127
For those fortunate Austinites who will face the difficult decision of choosing between two gigabit fiber ISPs: AT&T is a founding member of the Copyright Alert System scheme [1][2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Alert_System#History

[2] http://www.copyrightinformation.org/about-cci/

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#128
post #72
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government targets for rural areas is a joke, and damaging to the economy. Not helped by 4G rollout 'issues'. We have a microwave link on the church tower to cover the village here. It really shouldn't be left up to the locals to manage their own network.

Why not? You get a better service and its likely going to be cheaper. I wouldn't see any advantage of having companies like AT&T neglect such areas. Get the real competition going.

If national governments weren't thoroughly corrupted by the vested telecom interests, they would fund local-owned efforts to set their own baselines, allowing profit-driven enterprises to address sub-areas that are profitable within that area to deliver even better access.

The problem is that it's the opposite (at least in the USA) - state and national governments are lobbied by the telecom/cable industry to pass laws prohibiting local initiatives, so local governments have to give massive subsidies or concessions in order to get anything.

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sonic.net proposed gigabit in SF with 170 above ground repeaters compared to AT&Ts 800+. That also was voted down. It's not a sick joke, it's San Franciscan :/. I sometimes feel like we work in a city that's all things at once: tech bastion, hipster haven, and a home to a generation of hippies. There's a lot of culture and there's a part of it that hates ugly things and a part of it that hates technology and every ti…

Um you know that city wide wifi woudl require an insane amount of AP's and backhaul - hence why wimax doesnt seem to be going any where.

Insane is relative, backhaul is also relative.

I don't think WiMax was meant to solve the problems to which people have applied it. If you look at WiMax actual range, it's quite good, but the advertised range is at least double (hence all of the big ClearWire lawsuits).

I don't think setting up city wide wifi is unreasonable with present technology. I think it's an entirely attainable goal, the things that hold it back are bureaucracy and the same individuals who hold back things like project lightspeed.

But my broad point in response to your comment is that the benefit of saturating san francisco with AP's are manifold, whereas the costs and risks are minimal.

Re: AT&T Pretends It, Too, Will Build A 1 Gigabit Network

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start an ISP. You'll make a lot of money.

You're kidding right? The issue is not a lack of entrepreneurs.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but if rural telcos are building their own networks, what is to stop you from also building your own Network?

Am I missing something?

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