Live data from Hacker News

Is it Time for Mutiny?

blogs.hbr.org

1–10 of 40 posts

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#2
As the last sentence in the article states, I believe the modern-day form of mutiny is brain-drain. Ships were closed systems with limited means for dissatisfied crew members to leave. The business world, on the other hand, is an open system.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#3
Let's say a "friend" of mine works for a company of about 100 people. There would be clear lines of demarcation between departments, management, and responsibility but that is not what ownership wants. Instead they run a flat system where the patriarch (of the family that owns the company):

* bypasses all "managers" to assign tasks direct to the employee

* never has a meeting asking for suggested fixes, just what he thinks he should do

* will not support any directives not thought up by him

This is not standard "every office" has this paranoia. My friend has a long history of employment and they know the difference.

The problem is that they grew to care about the rest of the staff. My friend fancies himself the protector and even for a time was |---| close to heading up company operations. Nevertheless, it never happened.

My point is that the company is ripe for just such a mutiny. People are unable to do their jobs effectively and it's caused such a turtling effect that nobody wants to stick their neck out anymore.

But a mutiny wouldn't help, would it? Would it?

All my friend can see is more divisiveness separating the ownership from the employees who are already treated as a line in the expense ledger. If the owner could, he'd do everyone's job and he'd do it better than they could.

A mutiny would do nothing more than to reinforce that he thinks people have a bad attitude, as opposed to realizing one exists because of the situation.

Everyone where my friend works want to see the company continue to succeed. But what incentive is there for people to care when you are treated as if your input is meaningless?

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#4
>It's a rarely studied era

More accurate: 100 years ago it was an intensely studied era, as the West struggled to understand what had allowed it to conquer the whole world. But it is an era that has gone out of fashion. It is not now widely studied.

But even now, the subject is not unknown. The person who did the best comparison of modern entrepreneurs and the old sea faring culture was Ted Goranson, in a small pamphlet called "Whale of a Tale." It is tragic that this pamphlet is now out of print. It used to be that you could find a copy on Amazon, but now it seems to be gone. It was only 25 pages, and did a brilliant job showing how the old laws and cultures of the seafaring nations became the basis for the modern understanding of entrepreneurs.

I understand that his "whale" story was incorporated into the book he eventually wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Virtual-Enterprise-Cases-Metrics...

I have not read the book so I can not vouch for it.

In his pamphlet, Goranson did a great job of arguing that whaling ships were the worlds first Virtual Agile Enterprises. Very insightful reading.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#5
post #2

As the last sentence in the article states, I believe the modern-day form of mutiny is brain-drain. Ships were closed systems with limited means for dissatisfied crew members to leave. The business world, on the other hand, is an open system.

>The business world, on the other hand, is an open system.

Depending on the country. There is probably an interesting relationship between the openness of the business system (how easy is it to quit and get a different job) and how much people feel the need to fight to reform their current job.

I know that in Eastern Europe there is still a culture that feels that past a certain age it is difficult to find a new job, and so one must stick with one's current job, and mutiny if the leadership is very bad. (To some extent, that attitude is everywhere, but it is much stronger in some areas of the world. The English speaking nations seem to lead the way in assuming that quitting and hiring and firing should all be fairly free.)

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#7
post #4

>It's a rarely studied era More accurate: 100 years ago it was an intensely studied era, as the West struggled to understand what had allowed it to conquer the whole world. But it is an era that has gone out of fashion. It is not now widely studied. But even now, the subject is not unknown. The person who did the best comparison of modern entrepreneurs and the old sea faring culture was Ted Goranson, in a small pamph…

that's a pretty good pamphlet, thanks for sharing. but unfortunately, age of discovery seafaring ventures and whaling ventures were very different indeed. the former where driven by discovery and intensely entrepreneurial. the latter were driven my mercantilism and commercial routines and more industrial i.e., less entrepreneurial. you'll learn far more about the implicitly human dynamics of coordinated upward defiance (mutiny) and entrepreneurial action studying the age of discovery. that's what mutiny and its bounty does. whaling wasn't part of the age of discovery, as you imply (btw it belies your point that the age of discovery was intensely studied). whaling came later, with england, which was about 100 years behind spain and 200 years behind portugal with regard to seafaring. that being said, english mercantilism and its traditions generated the largest empire in world history. but large bureaucratic empires are not really what we're talking about here; we're talking about agile entrepreneurial ventures.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#8

Let's say a "friend" of mine works for a company of about 100 people. There would be clear lines of demarcation between departments, management, and responsibility but that is not what ownership wants. Instead they run a flat system where the patriarch (of the family that owns the company): * bypasses all "managers" to assign tasks direct to the employee * never has a meeting asking for suggested fixes, just what he…

great comment. mutiny was viewed extremely differently in the age of discovery, even positively. seafarers were extremely clever about it and so were leaders. it is possible to depose authority in a setting like you describe but not via the current dominant view or what it means to depose authority. a mutiny, done very strategically, can be constructive. but it needs to flow from the culture of the organization in which it occurs.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#9
In my company there was recently a successful case of mutiny where an incompetent project manager was removed from a project and subsequently made to leave the company.

Long story short, the guy was making stupid technical decisions (some of which were incredibly harmful to the project), he was unable to complete his tasks within a reasonable timespan, he was dictatorial and argumentative with other developers despite lacking technical expertise and a plethora of other issues. A few developers got together, went to his boss, told him about the situation (basically what I wrote above, though in a more tactful way), managed to convince the boss that the guy is a major liability and a risk to the project and succeeded in removing him from the project. The project is now successful once again.

It was an incredibly risky move in my opinion but it succeeded because the devs were organized, disciplined and tactful and presented their case to the higher ups in a rational and reasonable manner. If you're dealing with a situation like this, it helps to stay calm and try to not come off as a moaner/potential power grabber or something worse. It's risky but it can be done.

Re: Is it Time for Mutiny?

#10

In my company there was recently a successful case of mutiny where an incompetent project manager was removed from a project and subsequently made to leave the company. Long story short, the guy was making stupid technical decisions (some of which were incredibly harmful to the project), he was unable to complete his tasks within a reasonable timespan, he was dictatorial and argumentative with other developers despit…

that is an awesome example. there is a similar modern case in the book. a mutiny in a company and an entrepreneurial venture in a market space have many similarities, parallel risks and potential rewards.
Post reply on HN