Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#1

Post by stagas » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 2:49 PM UTC

Can someone explain to me how the same algorithm can classify a highly controversial topic like the Monsanto story[1] in place 128 while another story[2] of the same publication time with less points and much less comments be on place 29 on the frontpage at the same time?

[1]: http://imgur.com/2IU0JCD

[2]: http://imgur.com/XspkTjs

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#2

Post by stagas » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 2:52 PM UTC

Clickable:

[1]: http://imgur.com/2IU0JCD

[2]: http://imgur.com/XspkTjs

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#3

Post by btilly » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

Advanced users can flag articles. Flagged articles sink. Controversial topics are more likely to get flagged.

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#4

Post by DanBC » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 3:01 PM UTC

Flagging is taken into account with article position. People are flagging the monsanto article.

HN could be a useful place to discuss monsanto, but that thread is an excellent demonstration of why topics like that fail on HN.

There's a bunch of people who've gone into that thread with fixed opinions. They're not going to change their opinions; they're going to cherry pick articles to support their view points. Discussion is limited and polarised.

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#5

Post by stagas » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 3:04 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #4

Flagging is taken into account with article position. People are flagging the monsanto article. HN could be a useful place to discuss monsanto, but that thread is an excellent demonstration of why topics like that fail on HN. There's a bunch of people who've gone into that thread with fixed opinions. They're not going to change their opinions; they're going to cherry pick articles to support their view points. Discus…

That makes sense and I understand it. However it seems way too artificial for me, because I was watching the Monsanto thread and it went from place 2 in the 1st page to the 3rd page in the span of a couple of minutes before anyone had a chance to express their opinion so as you see it now it's because only those of us that were in the thread actually continued discussion.

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#6

Post by impostervt » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 3:22 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #3

Advanced users can flag articles. Flagged articles sink. Controversial topics are more likely to get flagged.

I had no idea that flagging was essentially a down-vote. Thanks.

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#7

Post by jeremysmyth » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 3:27 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #3

Advanced users can flag articles. Flagged articles sink. Controversial topics are more likely to get flagged.

Not just controversial. Some of us get our political news elsewhere and would rather see articles promoted on HN if they bear some relation to the theme. Flagging is the only way for the community to control what others post.

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#8

Post by nollidge » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 3:28 PM UTC

impostervt wrote: post #6

btilly wrote: post #3

Advanced users can flag articles. Flagged articles sink. Controversial topics are more likely to get flagged.

I had no idea that flagging was essentially a down-vote. Thanks.

It seems much stronger than one downvote. Personally I reserve its use for blogspam, particularly toxic discussion, or if it's just beating a dead horse.

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#9

Post by cooldeal » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 3:36 PM UTC

There are a few ways that an article can appear lower than it should.

1) Flagging by people with karma over the threshold (currently set at 500).

2) For some domains, only 1/3rd of the upvotes count, e.g. Reddit, XKCD, images, tweets.

3) There is a "controversial" score which can bring down a story. Not sure how it is computed but perhaps it's based on number of comments versus number of points.

4) Voting ring detector. This can bring down a post pretty hard if it's triggered.

5) I suspect the HN supermoderators can cause a post to sink to the second page instantly.

Most of the time it's #1 that causes posts to go down.

I've usually seen it happen to posts that are anti-Apple, anti-Google or posts related to Microsoft that are not negative towards it. It's like the moderators flag posts that they don't want others to be seeing.

For example, the Surface Pro review

http://i.imgur.com/uFPTSqR.png

http://i.imgur.com/ADMcanz.png

Re: Ask PG, HN: Is someone tampering with article positions?

#10

Post by trotsky » Wed, Apr 10, 2013, 3:41 PM UTC

cooldeal wrote: post #9

There are a few ways that an article can appear lower than it should. 1) Flagging by people with karma over the threshold (currently set at 500). 2) For some domains, only 1/3rd of the upvotes count, e.g. Reddit, XKCD, images, tweets. 3) There is a "controversial" score which can bring down a story. Not sure how it is computed but perhaps it's based on number of comments versus number of points. 4) Voting ring detect…

5 is a big part too, a moderator flag appears to instantly drop a post about 60 ranks (from first to third page). I think when you see it only get to the second page that's user flagging.