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Bitcoin hits $200

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21–30 of 106 posts

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#21
I'm not a substantial bitcoin investor, but I follow bitcointalk.org fairly actively, and there has been a fairly noticeable increase in posts about ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) solutions being a profitible means to mine Bitcoins. I don't know whether this is a driving factor, but it certainly relates to the expanding market in general.

The wide perception of Butterfly Lab's ASIC solution as being a scam has resulted in wide interest in alternatives, which are legitimized by seemingly functional and deliverable ASIC solutions by companies like Avalon. At over 6,000 Mh/S per module, they exceed the best GPU/FPGA solutions for mining almost by a almost a hundred fold (after factoring power consumption), which has produced a tangible market of bitcoin hardware.

Regardless of whether specialized Bitcoin ASIC hardware is cost effective, the production serves to legitimize the currency/producing market as a whole (as well as reinforcing the hype/gold rush mentality for miners and speculators).

I'm still not sure how/whether the currency will eventually settle, but it is very interesting to follow.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#22
post #7

Does anyone have a link or justification in anyway for the rise in the conversion rate? I like the idea of an independent (non-government), secure currency - but I can't see this as anything other than a speculation driven investment vehicle. Seems like tulip mania to me [1]. Also, is there any management of Bitcoin to prevent excessive currency fluctuations? Not having this would seem to be a flaw to me - you can't…

A better comparison than tulips would be silver. Tulips are a bad store of wealth (they rot, anyone can grow them, are not divisible, etc), whereas Bitcoin and silver can be stored and easily divided into smaller units. It still could be in a bubble, like silver was around 1980.

http://silverprice.org/charts/history/silver_all_data_o_usd....

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#23
It's fascinating to watch this, largely because Bitcoin has no "natural" value. The only utility it has is as a transfer of value from one place to another, and it can do that equally well with a bitcoin being worth $1 or $200.

But it's really interesting to watch the value ratchet up, and easy to see how you can do this - if people will only ever sell a bitcoin for (say) 1% more than they bought it for, and people buying things with bitcoins don't care if the things they're buying with it are priced 1% higher than they might, theoretically have been, then the price of bitcoins can keep increasing indefinitely.

Until, that is, some people decide that they want to get rid of a lot of bitcoins, and thus are willing to accept less than that, to shift them quickly. Then the price drops. And then more people might also decide to sell, so as to convert the bitcoins they have at the value they're now worth.

It's classic sentiment pricing - but without any of the value "stickiness" that you get when there's some utility to be gained from the objects you're trading.

(I'm not trying to talk Bitcoin down here, I find the whole thing fascinating. Just thinking out loud.)

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#24
post #20

What goes up... The past couple of weeks has shown how easily the bitcoin market can be manipulated. People used to do this with shares. Buy up all the shares to push the price up. Then get out with a profit crashing the value of the share. I don't think this is any different. I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of parties were responsible for the explosion in bitcoin value. You could point to the Cyprus banking cri…

If they can get liquidity then you are talking hundreds of millions in profit

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#26
The funny thing is that it didn't hit $203, or $201.12, but $200.

Whoever is driving this big buys to drive up the price is doing it at very predictable, very specific price points, across multiple currencies.

On mtgox GBP, for instance, it plateaus and peaks at very predictable values - £125, £130.

Frankly, I think that what's going on is there are a few traders (actual traders, not BTC speculators) who are driving the entire market. Hell, you can push the GBP price around just by buying or selling a few dozen BTC, the volumes are so low.

Guess what I'm getting at is that there's a hidden force behind this, and they're not dumb - but most of the speculators apparently are.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#27
post #7

Does anyone have a link or justification in anyway for the rise in the conversion rate? I like the idea of an independent (non-government), secure currency - but I can't see this as anything other than a speculation driven investment vehicle. Seems like tulip mania to me [1]. Also, is there any management of Bitcoin to prevent excessive currency fluctuations? Not having this would seem to be a flaw to me - you can't…

It's hard to say. There are many who justify prices far higher based on future adoption. Adoption is picking up at a remarkable rate.

The USD money supply is around $3T or $10T, depending on whether you are counting money multiplied by leverage. The US GDP is $15T. If we presume that a currency then should be on the same order of magnitude of money supply as the GDP or transaction volume, it's not hard to project a $100B+ supply of bitcoin. With the supply currently at $2B, there is a lot of room to grow. I have no idea if this analysis is reasonable, but I suspect it is close to the "story" behind the bubble.

Of course all of this presumes that bitcoin will prevail as the leading crypto-currency, regulatory hurdles will be surmounted, and the currency remains secure. Those are not implausible ifs. In fact, I'm a big believer in the future of bitcoin, even if it is getting a little ahead of itself.

I anticipate a significant collapse at some point, regardless of the success of bitcoin. That crash may very well be from $1000 to $200 though.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#28
post #7

Does anyone have a link or justification in anyway for the rise in the conversion rate? I like the idea of an independent (non-government), secure currency - but I can't see this as anything other than a speculation driven investment vehicle. Seems like tulip mania to me [1]. Also, is there any management of Bitcoin to prevent excessive currency fluctuations? Not having this would seem to be a flaw to me - you can't…

Most Bitcoin supporters agree that there are only two possibilities in the long run: either a fundamental flaw in the Bitcoin code or economics is discovered and the value drops down all the way to zero; or Bitcoin reaches a point of global acceptation causing the value to reach way, way above 200$.

For someone who leans towards the second outcome, they see the recent rise as a 'correction towards the true value' rather than a bubble.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#29
post #26

The funny thing is that it didn't hit $203, or $201.12, but $200. Whoever is driving this big buys to drive up the price is doing it at very predictable, very specific price points, across multiple currencies. On mtgox GBP, for instance, it plateaus and peaks at very predictable values - £125, £130. Frankly, I think that what's going on is there are a few traders (actual traders, not BTC speculators) who are driving…

It's very common for markets to peak out at psychologically important levels for a variety of reasons. In fact, I would not call this unusual at all.

Anyway, it is trading over $200 now, so it's a moot point.

I'd be more inclined to suspect bandwagon speculation than manipulation.

Re: Bitcoin hits $200

#30
post #8
post #4

Is it safe for me to express my belief that Bitcoin value is being manipulated by forces who intend to crash it? I've stayed away from it simply because of that. I fear some people are in for a very rude awakening. Don't count your money just yet -- and, for god's sake, don't try to use it as the basis for any paper money loans! None of you knew about Stuxnet. The story of Bitcoin's infiltration and manipulation is y…

Really? Should we talk about $$$ manipulation? We all know about the world finance industry. We all know how corrupt it is and how fucked-up things really are. Yet discounting Occupy - which was violently suppressed anyhow - I don't see people in on the streets demanding to burn down Wall Street to ashes.

>>>Really? Should we talk about $$$ manipulation?

This is the same thing by the same people is my suspicion.

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