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Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

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Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#261

Post by gbog »

IanCal wrote: post #239
gbog wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> capture selections or right-click (think: WYSIWYG editor widget) Why, no, not the same. I think it is ok for a webapp to be aware that I selected some text, and which text, so a further click on "boldface" would have a context. But it is not ok for a webapp to interfere with the text selection itself. For instance, well-intentionned chrome always add " http:// when I select the url. It gets in my way very often and…

"I have to use Trello at work but this bully don't even let me select a card title." It does if the card is open, are you referring to it assuming you're trying to drag a card on the board view? I'd rather have that than sometimes it drags, sometimes it selects the text.

I mean that when I click on a title Trello assumes I want to edit it. It's that too hard to have a light gray edit icon for that purpose?

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#262

Post by nitrogen »

cmsj wrote: post #221
nitrogen wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may have been true 5-10 years ago, but modern desktops are removing the ability to manage services, sessions, and startup apps easily and clearly.

To be fair, some of this is driven by real needs. People want fast boots, so you have to work tightly in parallel. That requires a clear and complex dependency graph. That requires significantly more than some symlinks in /etc/rc?.d/. Also as distros aim to pare down their default installs, you end up in a situation where there is very little that you actually can disable without breaking your ability to boot. Furthe…

I'm referring more to the GUI sessions, startup apps, etc. It seems when I first started using Linux, most of the DEs made it very clear how to edit menu entries, where startup apps were located, what data and apps were restored when a session was restarted... At least in the Ubuntu variants, those options are less obvious.

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#263

Post by stock_toaster »

halfasleep wrote: post #217
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wget does not validate certificates by default because there's no CA bundle provided with wget. It does check for /etc/ssl/cert.pem, but it doesn't provide one. So you have to provide one or set up /etc/ssl/certs/ as OpenSSL libraries expect. Curl does provide a CA bundle (/usr/share/curl/ca-bundle.crt) and by default libcurl validates certs against it.

cURL doesn't provide a CA bundle any more [1], it's the job of your OS to provide this. As I understand it, all tools that provide SSL support will fail safe if there are no root CAs on your system. [1] http://curl.haxx.se/docs/sslcerts.html

They do still provide a bundle[1] though, for cases where you need it (eg homebrew's curl-ca-bundle package).

  [1]: http://curl.haxx.se/docs/caextract.html

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#264

Post by thatthatis »

charlieok wrote: post #130
NelsonMinar wrote: post #51

Why would I bother copying and pasting the code to my clipboard when common industry practice now is just to invoke the output of curl directly? ruby -e "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.github.com/mxcl/homebrew/go )

I dislike this whole trend. How about we start thinking in terms of leaving the user's default environment, and system, alone, and “installing” software into nice sandboxed areas where we can easily enable/disable it, or delete it with a simple “rm -rf directory/path”

Like regularly backed up virtual machines?

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#265

Post by voltagex_ »

ricardobeat wrote: post #259
dasil003 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why anyone would want Homebrew on Linux anyway. The whole point of it is that OS X is a mostly-serviceable UNIX without a decent package manager. So if you have a handful of UNIX packages you just want a lightweight way to install them using the system headers where applicable. But if you need to install tons of stuff the cracks start to show, because you have no conflict resolution or sophisticated vers…

Homebrew formulas are much more frequently up-to-date than other package managers due to the crowd-sourced pull-request updates - there isn't a package mantainer that has to do all the work. Formulas are straight-forward and don't have a million conditionals for different system configurations (this would be hard to maintain on linux). These two things already make it much more pleasant to use than apt-get/yum/pacman…

Homebrew seems more akin to Arch's PKGBUILD or Gentoo's ebuilds than other package managers.

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#266

Post by dasil003 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #259
dasil003 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why anyone would want Homebrew on Linux anyway. The whole point of it is that OS X is a mostly-serviceable UNIX without a decent package manager. So if you have a handful of UNIX packages you just want a lightweight way to install them using the system headers where applicable. But if you need to install tons of stuff the cracks start to show, because you have no conflict resolution or sophisticated vers…

Homebrew formulas are much more frequently up-to-date than other package managers due to the crowd-sourced pull-request updates - there isn't a package mantainer that has to do all the work. Formulas are straight-forward and don't have a million conditionals for different system configurations (this would be hard to maintain on linux). These two things already make it much more pleasant to use than apt-get/yum/pacman…

Yes, I am familiar with homebrew and use it every day including submitting pull requests back. However you missed the point of my comment. The point is, it's more pleasant until you run into a conflict which existing Linux version managers tend to handle much better (out of experience and necessity). At that threshold of complexity you need something more sophisticated than homebrew to avoid pulling your hair out. OS X benefits from a certain homogeneity that puts homebrew in a sweet spot.

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#267

Post by talex5 »

charlieok wrote: post #176
NelsonMinar wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Homebrew (the example I'm picking on here), it does install to a nice sandboxed area. That area is named "/usr/local", but you can give it its own path and everything works pretty well. (I find I have to completely remove and reinstall Homebrew about every two months, generally because libgettext changed yet again.)

Homebrew is ok, and it has arguably improved the situation on Mac OS X a great deal, but I think we can do better still. Using homebrew, one tweaks recipes in ruby code until they work. Why do we not have a common (and widely adopted!) way for software projects to tell other software how to install/uninstall them, and what other projects they depend on for what particular operations (e.g. configure, build, install, t…

I don't know about "widely adopted", but we do have a common language for expressing how to build/install/test software across Linux, Unix, Windows and OS X:

http://0install.net/interface-spec.html

The tools to read this are in most Linux distribution repositories already (usually under the name "zeroinstall-injector"), and do dependency resolution, conflict resolution (via a SAT solver), GPG signature checking, etc. And each package unpacks to its own directory, so they don't interfere with system packages.

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#268

Post by ukandy »

Qantourisc wrote: post #19

IMO this is the browsers fault. One expects to copy the selected (visible) text. But kinda hard to fix ...

Definitely the browsers fault here for the unexpected behaviour and one that could easily trip up those that are not aware of this sort issue (probably those copying and pasting from random sites).

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#269

Post by cmsj »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #241
cmsj wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to show you a viable proposal for an alternative: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/apturl.8.ht...

As I've mentioned in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5508680 , for any alternative to be viable it must "work on all major platforms". APT is only used in Debian derivatives. How do you want to handle OS X users?

Give them a DMG?

It would be lovely if there was a One True Software Distribution Format, but it's not going to happen. wgetting into a bash script is a terrible way to not really support any users properly :)

Re: Don't Copy-Paste from Website to Terminal

#270

Post by cmsj »

nitrogen wrote: post #262
cmsj wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, some of this is driven by real needs. People want fast boots, so you have to work tightly in parallel. That requires a clear and complex dependency graph. That requires significantly more than some symlinks in /etc/rc?.d/. Also as distros aim to pare down their default installs, you end up in a situation where there is very little that you actually can disable without breaking your ability to boot. Furthe…

I'm referring more to the GUI sessions, startup apps, etc. It seems when I first started using Linux, most of the DEs made it very clear how to edit menu entries, where startup apps were located, what data and apps were restored when a session was restarted... At least in the Ubuntu variants, those options are less obvious.

Ah right, then yeah, that stuff is now pretty opaque and has changed a bunch since the old desktop days.
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