The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
theatlantic.com
The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
1–10 of 87 posts
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#2From the comments:
"The focus and concern shouldn't be how much the top 1% are making, it should be how much the 99% are making, especially the bottom 50%. I dont really care how much money Bill Gates and Donald Trump are making. Their income has absolutely no effect at all on my income, what I'm most concerned about is how much money I'm making.
The economy is not a zero sum game, where if the rich make a trillion more it comes out of the pockets of the workers. This notion is childish and wrong. Trade only happens if its mutually beneficial for BOTH parties, this applies to workers trading their time for money. The chart above shows corporate profits going through the roof but at the same time labour income is INCREASING.
The first chart shows labour income increasing over 1000% in forty years. It's not noted if these are nominal gains or inflation adjusted gains. Given the dip in 2009, I think these are real gains and represent real growing prospertity for workers. Maybe a 1000% increase isnt enough but the chart clearly shows workers income is rising.
There are not alot of TVs, computers and cell phones being assembled in the US but this is a good thing. Cheap foreign labour for all Amercians to have these goods. If flat screen TVs were assembled by UAW workers in the US TVs would cost $2000 and far fewer people would have them.
Having a million in cash on desert island is useless. You'd rather have a clean drinking water rather than small pieces of green paper - it doesnt even burn very well. Money isnt valuable in its self, money is valued for the stuff it can buy. Prosperity isnt just how much money you make, it's how much stuff you can purchase. $10/hr in the US is a struggle, $10/hr in India is quite comfortable.
Maybe 1000% increase in labour income isnt enough but cheap foreign labour and global trade have amplified that increase. Advances in technology and product quality have benefited the middle class more than the rich. The rich could always afford quality and latest gizmos. Now nearly every one can afford them."
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#3Yup. Using humans to get stuff done isn't our only option anymore, so a difference between the stock market and labor market isn't surprising.
I live in a liberal area and I'm facebook friends with a lot of Burners (people who have gone to burning man). I see a ton of image macros and posts where people are implying that it's a moral wrong that businesses are doing well while we have high unemployment. :-/ For me, once I understood the (technological, economic) reasons for the difference it became less of a moral issue and more of a practical issue. (i.e.--- had to throw out my semi-useless degree and learn a valuable skill. My valuable skill is copy-pasting coffeescript!)
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#4From the comments: "The focus and concern shouldn't be how much the top 1% are making, it should be how much the 99% are making, especially the bottom 50%. I dont really care how much money Bill Gates and Donald Trump are making. Their income has absolutely no effect at all on my income, what I'm most concerned about is how much money I'm making. The economy is not a zero sum game, where if the rich make a trillion m…
I think the point of the article is that the "Bush cuts" arrived because they promised more and better jobs. Yet 99% of that went to the corporations' own profit and to the top guys there. It kills the illusion that wealth people and corporations are "job creators" so we need to cut their taxes more.
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#5From the comments: "The focus and concern shouldn't be how much the top 1% are making, it should be how much the 99% are making, especially the bottom 50%. I dont really care how much money Bill Gates and Donald Trump are making. Their income has absolutely no effect at all on my income, what I'm most concerned about is how much money I'm making. The economy is not a zero sum game, where if the rich make a trillion m…
There not inflation adjusted as the real GDP has not quite tripled since 1972. http://www.multpl.com/us-gdp-inflation-adjusted/table Adjust for a 50% population growth over that time period and real per capita GDP is hardly moving.
US Real GDP
Dec 31, 2012 13.67 trillion (43,600 per person)
Dec 31, 1972 4.75 trillion (23,750 per person)
PS: The problem with looking at the stock market value is it responds to far more than just the expected future dividends. When bonds are paying 1% a dividend stock returning 3$ a share is worth a lot more than that same stock when bonds are paying 4%. Dividends are a much more useful when doing economic analysis.
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#6From the comments: "The focus and concern shouldn't be how much the top 1% are making, it should be how much the 99% are making, especially the bottom 50%. I dont really care how much money Bill Gates and Donald Trump are making. Their income has absolutely no effect at all on my income, what I'm most concerned about is how much money I'm making. The economy is not a zero sum game, where if the rich make a trillion m…
The core claim of that comment is built upon guesswork, of a highly dubious sort at that:
"It's not noted if these are nominal gains or inflation adjusted gains. Given the dip in 2009, I think these are real gains"
Seriously? Seeing a tenfold gain in labour income in the graph, taking it to be in real terms is the more plausible option?
Here's an inflation-adjusted graph, albeit not (I think) of quite the same data:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Dist...
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#7From the comments: "The focus and concern shouldn't be how much the top 1% are making, it should be how much the 99% are making, especially the bottom 50%. I dont really care how much money Bill Gates and Donald Trump are making. Their income has absolutely no effect at all on my income, what I'm most concerned about is how much money I'm making. The economy is not a zero sum game, where if the rich make a trillion m…
> The chart above shows corporate profits going through the roof but at the same time labour income is INCREASING.
Actually if you graph real per capita labour income, it's decreasing. Labour income as a whole is only increasing because of inflation and population inflation.
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#8From the comments: "The focus and concern shouldn't be how much the top 1% are making, it should be how much the 99% are making, especially the bottom 50%. I dont really care how much money Bill Gates and Donald Trump are making. Their income has absolutely no effect at all on my income, what I'm most concerned about is how much money I'm making. The economy is not a zero sum game, where if the rich make a trillion m…
I think the point of the article is that the "Bush cuts" arrived because they promised more and better jobs. Yet 99% of that went to the corporations' own profit and to the top guys there. It kills the illusion that wealth people and corporations are "job creators" so we need to cut their taxes more.
99% is factually false. http://www.policymic.com/articles/3701/who-really-benefited-...
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#9From the comments: "The focus and concern shouldn't be how much the top 1% are making, it should be how much the 99% are making, especially the bottom 50%. I dont really care how much money Bill Gates and Donald Trump are making. Their income has absolutely no effect at all on my income, what I'm most concerned about is how much money I'm making. The economy is not a zero sum game, where if the rich make a trillion m…
> The chart above shows corporate profits going through the roof but at the same time labour income is INCREASING. Actually if you graph real per capita labour income, it's decreasing. Labour income as a whole is only increasing because of inflation and population inflation.
Wow...
wouldn't have caught that.
Perfect example of that old saying...
"There are lies, damn lies... and then there are statistics."
Re: The Stock Market vs. the Labor Market
#10Yup. Using humans to get stuff done isn't our only option anymore, so a difference between the stock market and labor market isn't surprising. I live in a liberal area and I'm facebook friends with a lot of Burners (people who have gone to burning man). I see a ton of image macros and posts where people are implying that it's a moral wrong that businesses are doing well while we have high unemployment. :-/ For me, on…
It's not wrong for businesses to do well -- but it's arguably wrong and certainly unsustainable for business prosperity not to trickle down to average people doing better.