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Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

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Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#41

Post by samuelroberts »

mrb wrote: post #2

"The volume of transactions in Bitcoin is growing only slowly, relative to the massive increase in demand for the currency" The author states this without presenting data. He is wrong. In fact, data shows the opposite: - The exchange rate increase by 5x between February (low of $20) and March (high of $100) - BitPay alone recorded a merchant transaction volume increasing by 7.6x between February ($687k) and March ($5…

If I'm not mistaken, 60% of BitPay's revenue from February and March came from Avalon ASIC devices being sold through BitPay. Avalon have now completely sold their 3 planned batches so BitPay's April figures should be a lot lower.

It might have been a once off for them as even if other ASIC manufacturers use BitPay, the demand will surely be lower as the ROI of ASIC devices will take much longer after the current ASIC batches in production get on the network and push the difficulty up.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#43

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gojomo wrote: post #25

FTA: Taxation: How do governments collect taxes on transactions in Bitcoin? The answer is they don't, and they can't. Though many Bitcoin fans don't quite realize it, Bitcoin's radical transparency could in fact be a tax-collector's wet dream. Every public-key, balance, and transaction is public. A government that wants to coopt and efficiently tax Bitcoin could announce the following policy, based on the idea of 'ta…

Bitcoin is not, practically speaking, going to replace the dollar or euro. This ambition projected onto it by anarchist promoters and alarmist detractors does not have a practical base. Instead, it is competing to be the floating alternative currency of choice. The question of a state taxing on the basis of Bitcoin is thus mis-placed.

The best case for Bitcoin would be inheriting the transactional characteristics of cash, i.e. facilitating transactions that one wishes to keep anonymous (or at least pseudonymous), and asset characteristics of gold, i.e. a fixed supply store of value. It competes solidly as a lightweight and comparatively secure alternative to both.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#44

Post by fpp »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #11
mbetter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why that second sentence is there, it doesn't really make much sense. The rest of the point is valid, especially regarding money laundering.

Why should we ever care about money laundering when they didn't punish HSBC? They aren't serious about this issue, why should we care?

There's a long list of prominent names being investigated or (not) prosecuted (basically scape-goating single employees): GS, Barclays, HSBC, UBS, Deutsche to name the most prominent ones.

And the (so far officially) biggest fish - Wachovia - and how this was (not) prosecuted, nobody really hold accountable, no (real) funds confiscated. A quick reminder on the size of that "business" (300 times bigger than Bitcoin even on the current blown-up total Bitcoin circulation):

"... Wachovia was fined $50m and made to surrender $110m in proven drug profits, but was shown to have inadequately monitored a staggering $376bn through the casa de cambio over four years, of which $10bn was in cash..."

( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/21/drug-cartels-ban... and a longer article http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-d...)

All this is going on for decades. And please also don't forget: Like individuals or (private) companies, governments and politicians are using the same means to make illicit funds appear or disappear.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#45

Post by jellicle »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #29
gojomo wrote: post #25

FTA: Taxation: How do governments collect taxes on transactions in Bitcoin? The answer is they don't, and they can't. Though many Bitcoin fans don't quite realize it, Bitcoin's radical transparency could in fact be a tax-collector's wet dream. Every public-key, balance, and transaction is public. A government that wants to coopt and efficiently tax Bitcoin could announce the following policy, based on the idea of 'ta…

> If you do, you can file a disclosure with 30 days, identifying the origin and nature of the transaction I smell a Fifth Amendment issue with doing this in the US.

Your nose is wrong.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#46

Post by sliverstorm »

readme wrote: post #23
itistoday2 wrote: post #4

What a gigantic piece of FUD. > How do governments collect taxes on transactions in Bitcoin? The answer is they don't, and they can't. Crypto-currency's strong protections on anonymity make it impossible for any state to know who is buying what, who is paying whom, who earns what, and who has what in savings. BS! The state seems to be surviving just fine with its "inability" to track who is buying what with cash, and…

"Bitcoin is interfering with the ability of the government to stop consensual transactions between adults." UH OH

I wonder how anyone can think that is the case. Can the government stop me from buying something with USD? Not a chance.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#47

Post by sliverstorm »

davidjohnstone wrote: post #31

Crypto-currencies might be, but I don't think Bitcoin is an existential threat to the modern liberal state. The anonymity that every mainstream article claims Bitcoin has is not nearly as strong as it's made out to be[1][2][3]. The built-in deflationary aspect of Bitcoin seems to prevent it from being used as a "serious" currency. Hiding money under your mattress should never be the optimal approach to making more mo…

You could argue that Bitcoin is a more perfect sort of system

Which could be exactly why it is wrong for humans- as we are more imperfect than perfect :)

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#48

Post by [deleted] »

gojomo wrote: post #25

FTA: Taxation: How do governments collect taxes on transactions in Bitcoin? The answer is they don't, and they can't. Though many Bitcoin fans don't quite realize it, Bitcoin's radical transparency could in fact be a tax-collector's wet dream. Every public-key, balance, and transaction is public. A government that wants to coopt and efficiently tax Bitcoin could announce the following policy, based on the idea of 'ta…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#49

Post by Zigurd »

Bitcoin is analogous to gold. To the extent it is more of a "threat" than gold, it is because moving bitcoin across national borders is easier. You also don't have to assay it.

This article is alarmism. There is no theory of how bitcoin will facilitate more tax evasion or transactions for contraband, than cash or, or bearer bonds, or gold do.

Re: Bitcoin Is an Existential Threat to the Modern Liberal State

#50

Post by gojomo »

jlgreco wrote: post #40
gojomo wrote: post #25

FTA: Taxation: How do governments collect taxes on transactions in Bitcoin? The answer is they don't, and they can't. Though many Bitcoin fans don't quite realize it, Bitcoin's radical transparency could in fact be a tax-collector's wet dream. Every public-key, balance, and transaction is public. A government that wants to coopt and efficiently tax Bitcoin could announce the following policy, based on the idea of 'ta…

What happens if I send dirty money to my enemy's registered address?

Your client/wallet detects it and offers a pop-up with registration or forfeiture options. Up to a certain amount (per person, per year) you can probably just pay a small excise tax (less than 100% forfeiture) to 'clean' it. Larger amounts without explanation would mean a visit from the taxman or Justice Department, however.
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