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Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

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Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#121

Post by wyqueshocec »

columbo wrote: post #94
milesf wrote: post #61

It's a useful data point to know the speed of frameworks, but what matters most to me is speed of development and whether or not I enjoy the process. Wish there was a way to benchmark those points.

>what matters most to me is speed of development and whether or not I enjoy the process. Matters most? There are 100x differences here. Take two companies writing the same application, one in Spring the other in Rails. Both have easy access to knowledgable people, both are industry standard. However the Spring application would be several orders of magnitude more scalable[1]. I'd consider that to be a more important…

From my experience, the Spring one would take 10x as long to make, which means more developer cost and more feedback reaction time. Certainly not a deal breaker, but a cost/tradeoff one must consider.

Edit: clarity.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#122

Post by ebiester »

keammo1 wrote: post #53
krg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/tree/mast... See php.ini, php-fpm.conf.

I could be missing something, but it looks like you are using the default settings. Have you tried tweaking it all? Specifically setting apc.stat=0, which will stop it from checking the mtime. You'll need to clear the cache with apc_clear_cache() when you make code changes though. You may also want to look at apc.php to check for fragmentation and adjust apc.shm_size if necessary

fork, benchmark, and create a pull request. :)

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#123

Post by pilgrim689 »

saosebastiao wrote: post #68

Yesod disappoints! Unfortunate for how much it is hyped. This is definitely good to know, even if it appears that the Warp server was not used.

That's the first thing I noticed. What was used instead of Warp?

I also see that Snap got pulled in a couple days ago, so it will probably get tested in the next round. Should be interesting to see how it fares against Yesod.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#125

Post by ebiester »

cmsimike wrote: post #72
Joeri wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netty, gemini and servlet are all java server solutions without a thick framework layer getting in-between. What you can tell from these benchmarks in my opinion is that java (or rather the JVM) has the best "raw" performance. Frameworks introduce a slow-down factor on top of the raw platform, and different frameworks have different slow-down factors. You have to trade off developer productivity for performance when…

Gemini is a full-featured web framework. We've built it and maintain it internally. It offers caching (though not enabled for these tests), lightweight ORM, bunch of default handling methods and plenty of other features.

I keep thinking this is a pre-advertisement for the future release of Gemini... :)

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#126

Post by columbo »

wyqueshocec wrote: post #121
columbo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what matters most to me is speed of development and whether or not I enjoy the process. Matters most? There are 100x differences here. Take two companies writing the same application, one in Spring the other in Rails. Both have easy access to knowledgable people, both are industry standard. However the Spring application would be several orders of magnitude more scalable[1]. I'd consider that to be a more important…

From my experience, the Spring one would take 10x as long to make, which means more developer cost and more feedback reaction time. Certainly not a deal breaker, but a cost/tradeoff one must consider. Edit: clarity.

Oh sure, there are reasons to use an easier/faster-to-develop language, I believe every developer should know a 'hard-and-fast' language and a 'slow-and-easy' language... and know when to use them.

98% of the websites out there could run on python and I doubt we'd see a big performance difference.

However, I really don't think there exists a 10x difference developing in Spring. Hell, I don't think there is a 10x difference in using Struts vs Rails.

Spring development is considered slow as it brings images of enterprise shops taking several years to go through the bureaucratic red tape necessary to incorporate a new feature.

I've worked with plenty of small companies using Spring and their development/release cycle is maybe 1/2 or 1/4 the speed of comparable 'easier-to-build' technologies, but it definitely isn't 1/10th the speed to develop.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#127

Post by mtrimpe »

wyqueshocec wrote: post #121
columbo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what matters most to me is speed of development and whether or not I enjoy the process. Matters most? There are 100x differences here. Take two companies writing the same application, one in Spring the other in Rails. Both have easy access to knowledgable people, both are industry standard. However the Spring application would be several orders of magnitude more scalable[1]. I'd consider that to be a more important…

From my experience, the Spring one would take 10x as long to make, which means more developer cost and more feedback reaction time. Certainly not a deal breaker, but a cost/tradeoff one must consider. Edit: clarity.

Do you have actual experience with developers of similar skill levels building a similar app in Spring and Rails?

While undoubtedly less expressive I think most of the bad rep Spring gets is because it's used in "Enterprise", which means programmers that are, if not of lower level, constantly interrupted and yanked around and told what not to do.

I wouldn't choose Spring anymore because there are better alternatives, but I'm pretty sure the 10x is in the programmer and not the framework. The framework might be 2x, if that, but not much more I think.

P.S. If you include Spring Roo then I'm pretty sure the 10x no longer holds, but I never got up to speed on Roo myself so I can't say anything authoritative on that.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#129

Post by doktrin »

mdlthree wrote: post #46

As an amateur hacker and after 275 days of reading Hacker News I feel I can now navigate in the sea of client side Javascript frameworks. With the introduction of this data on web framework performance, I now have another set of choices that I am completely unqualified to comprehend. My first impression is that this data shows about 3 levels of web frameworks. At the bottom (slowest) we have Django's and Rails and ma…

I think it's a misconception to think of Django and Rails as "introductory frameworks". These are production ready frameworks that can scale to meet a variety of (though not all) business needs.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks Round 2

#130

Post by wheaties »

Is it against the rules to use different workers for Django or Flask? In other words, there's a big difference when I run things with Gunicorn+Gevent+psychopg (PostGres async driver) than when I run it just with Gunicorn alone.
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