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Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

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Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#101

Post by badgar »

zdrtx wrote: post #97
badgar wrote: post #65

I don't think we should be too surprised with how FB will use the new data. I'm just wondering who Facebook is going to share this data with. I know a guy who works at one of Facebook's "partner companies" that pays gobs for FB user data. This partner company gets (as far as they can tell) fully-populated user data in Facebook's user dumps - way, way more information than they need or ask for. So the partner company…

Facebook doesn't sell user data.

Yes, yes it does. You'll need to refine your brief assertion to make it correct. It's all anonymized of course, but Facebook absolutely has many commercial agreements to share its user data with partner companies. A common part of these agreements, for example, is for the partner companies to also share their user data with Facebook.

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#102

Post by rakeshsharmak »

zmmmmm wrote: post #80

I find this line extremely cynical: > Facebook is going to use all this data — not to improve our lives — but to target better marketing and advertising messages at us It's entirely possible that better targeted marketing and advertising can "improve" our lives. To state this outcome as a dire dystopian end point is making a huge cynical assumption about the motives of companies and commerce in general. I honestly be…

No one doubts that better targeted marketing and advertising can "improve" lives. The dystopian part of this scenario is vesting just two companies with so much power. For example, FB (and Twitter) have already begun restricting API access to apps that are too big or unwilling to be bought out. In the absence of an alternate (or competing) network, they control your experience (and user data). Besides the negative consequences for commerce, there are wider implications for individuals. Dictators and totalitarian regimes sincerely believe they are doing best for their people. That may not be the case.

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#103

Post by danilocampos »

mattmaroon wrote: post #98
danilocampos wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I can tell this is just another third party launcher with the same privacy implications as any app that has GPS permissions. Except for the part where no other app collects or maintains anywhere near as much data about your personal history, your friends, what you look like, what your friends look like, what you like, what your friends like, who you talk to, what you talk about, what your friends talk abo…

Facebook already has that data and gives most of it away via connect to third parties with a click. If you're already using Facebook, and using location-based apps, then getting upset over this is silly.

You're free to feel any way you'd like. I don't have a strong opinion.

That said – Facebook's long record of privacy over-reaches is well established. My hunch is that given the high value a smartphone, and its data, has in people's lives, a position of caution is probably a lot more reasonable than plugging one's ears and saying "Everything is going to be just fine."

Software is changeable. Who knows what they'll do once they're entrenched.

Who knows what will become possible.

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#104

Post by recloop »

This is one of those posts with a scandalous headline to draw you in, but without anything substantial to back it up. I am quite disappointed that this came from a stalwart of a tech blogger like Om Malik. I can understand this coming from an MG Siegler or an Arrington or from the joke of a blog, Gizmodo.

It hinges on the GPS location, which Apple does, quite publicly with theing like Find my iPhone. Google does that already, and so do every other GPS device on earth. I don't even need to know if you are stationary at one location every night. I can just connect the dots on your end points of your trips and figure it out.

Heck even an app like Yelp can figure my home address, based on my restaurant searches. Facebook already knows much more about us, with or without our permission; just by using the website.

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#105

Post by fakeer »

mattmaroon wrote: post #22

This is idiotic. For one, it's no secret which apps are popular. Facebook doesn't need a trojan horse to figure that out, they just need to look at App Annie. For another, any app with location services permissions can do exactly what he's describing. Also what does "Android allows Facebook to do whatever it wants on the platform, and that means accessing the hardware as well," mean? Unless you're rolling your own ve…

>>As far as I can tell this is just another third party launcher with the same privacy implications as any app that has GPS permissions.

No, it doesn't. I was, till recently, using Nova Launcher and its permissions would pale in comparison with Facebook Messenger's permissions. Mind it, I am not mentioning the full fledged Facebook app here but just the messenger. I am just uninstalling it, to hell with those in my friend list who have virtually ditched all other communication media.(never looked at it's permissions before today)

Why, when WhatsApp and all other apps might be doing it(not mentioning any G app)? Track record. Facebook is a history-sheeter when it comes to privacy and the pledge to keep repeating their act is their business model. Otherwise Google already has everything I do.

>>You have access to a few things you don't on iOS but it's not "whatever you want"

Though it's technically true, the whatever you want part; but the part "have access to a few things you don't on iOS" is such an understatement that it leans towards being a bs.

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#106

Post by voltagex_ »

unreal37 wrote: post #34
Nursie wrote: post #18

I'm not sure why I would allow Facebook on to my phone in the first place, let alone to run the whole show. Their privacy record isn't exactly great and runs contrary to their business model. I don't trust their app (look at the email address change nonsense), let alone a bigger one, and the page renders just fine in a mobile browser. I also find the whole "ping me when a close friend does or says anything" aspect of…

If you don't trust them, you wouldn't install this app. So... whats the issue? Nobody will be harmed by this.

Depending on which phone you buy, it might not be you installing it.

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#107

Post by HarrisonFisk »

badgar wrote: post #65

I don't think we should be too surprised with how FB will use the new data. I'm just wondering who Facebook is going to share this data with. I know a guy who works at one of Facebook's "partner companies" that pays gobs for FB user data. This partner company gets (as far as they can tell) fully-populated user data in Facebook's user dumps - way, way more information than they need or ask for. So the partner company…

Facebook does not sell user data regardless of what you may have heard.

See: https://www.facebook.com/help/152637448140583/

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#108

Post by kmavm »

badgar wrote: post #101
zdrtx wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook doesn't sell user data.

Yes, yes it does. You'll need to refine your brief assertion to make it correct. It's all anonymized of course, but Facebook absolutely has many commercial agreements to share its user data with partner companies. A common part of these agreements, for example, is for the partner companies to also share their user data with Facebook.

I've worked at Facebook for four years. No, no we don't, no matter what the "guy you know" says. Harrison already provided you with our very strongly worded, official claims to that effect.

Since you're the one claiming otherwise, how about an actual, verifiable example? "Company X paid Facebook $Y for user data Z" doesn't sound like an unreasonably specific request.

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#109

Post by HarrisonFisk »

monkeynotes wrote: post #71
badgar wrote: post #65

I don't think we should be too surprised with how FB will use the new data. I'm just wondering who Facebook is going to share this data with. I know a guy who works at one of Facebook's "partner companies" that pays gobs for FB user data. This partner company gets (as far as they can tell) fully-populated user data in Facebook's user dumps - way, way more information than they need or ask for. So the partner company…

I deleted my FB account when they IPO'd as I could then plainly see that the only worth in the company was user data and it would certainly be monetised as much as possible. But 'deleting' an account probably doesn't do much more than remove the data from the immediate web services. My data has probably been sold to multiple 3rd parties by now.

When you delete your account, the data is actually removed. As part of the recent privacy audit, the Irish DPC reviewed the account deletion framework and verified that it does indeed work:

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/21-09-12--Facebook-Ireland... (section 2.10 - page 41)

Re: Facebook Home destroys any notion of privacy

#110

Post by ashleyblackmore »

mattmaroon wrote: post #100
smokinjoe wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid this. I really started to dislike OEM's and decided to go Nexus. The number of bundled apps that went dead (Blockbuster went bankrupt and yet I was stuck with that app) or unsupported just drove me away. I understand that now instead of worrying about unsupported apps you have to worry about what these apps track in the background, however there are a number of other p…

Not to mention most OEMs put a custom launcher of some sort on their Android devices already and pretty much always have. I don't see Facebook as being any more odious than Samsung just because they know I like The Black Keys and Mad Men too. My phone's manufacturer could collect much more personal information about me than Facebook does. For all I know they're recording all my calls and uploaded them somewhere. Real…

Once again, "Black Keys and Mad Men" is different to "your personal history, your friends, what you look like, what your friends look like, what you like, what your friends like, who you talk to, what you talk about, what your friends talk about, which services you subscribe to, where you went to school, where you worked, when you worked, when you graduated, when you began a relationship, when you ended a relationship, your sexual preferences..."

Facebook doesn't need any apologists, least of all from the HN community. Whether the article is linkbait or not, Facebook does need constant critique. Om Malik points out that Facebook Home means a new kind of persistent data-gathering wrapped in a trendy (?) skin that most facebook users will want to try out. It is bad enough that a billion people blithely use their web and phone apps without them having something that sinks its hooks in deeper

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