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So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

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Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#41
While I was still studying there, I volunteered for my alma mater's open day.

Pretty much every teenage boy told me his ambition was to make games. To them I said "study as much maths as your school will teach", which led to crestfallen faces.

To their parents I said "the games industry is terrible, but ours is a general computer science degree. Your boy will be able to get an entry-level job at any software firm".

The girls who came through seemed to be more interested in software as a professional career. It was an interesting contrast.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#42

> You do not go to college to 'learn' talent. You are either born with it or not. Can't say I agree with this entirely. I absolutely agree that going to college for four years will not make you into a good artist. But "being born with it" will not make you a good artist either. Hammering away at it two hours a day from age 12 to 22 will make you a good artist. You may never be a great one (that is where being born wi…

Were you thinking of this? http://www.conceptart.org/showthread.php?t=870

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#43
post #5

That's a great piece. Cranky but good. I will offer one disagreement: he's thinking about single-player games. There're also good jobs available on the server side for any online game (which is almost all of them these days). Server engineers don't need as much math as game programmers, and there are a lot of system and network administrators working in the game industry. Making games? Not exactly, but certainly work…

My work on League of Legends came as a direct result of a contract gig building an extranet for a gas pipeline company: Java and Activescript is Java and Activescript. In fact, you could argue we were solving the much harder problems in that game, since we had to deal with the massive scaling, while the game engine only had to deal with 10 people at a time.

Though the problem space is already partitioned for you, to some extent, on a per-game basis.

Have you written anything on it?

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#44
post #32
post #19

I worked in the video game industry for about six years. I worked for both major publishers and some startup MMOs. Specifically, I was doing online infrastructure kind of stuff. The gaming industry wasn't something I was actively trying to get into, and I had worked in telecommunications and manufacturing prior to this. When the big telecom I was working on started losing customers back in 2001, I knew what was about…

I think the game industry is magical because its one of the toughest. (yea, I'm ex OMHUGEGAMECOMPANY too) Its like having to found a new startup every year while having to converge 4+ major disciplines to create products (software, art, music, writing, and more). Brilliant fun, with steep challenges on every angle. @jmomo you sound a little jaded. Glad things are going better for you.

Ha. Try robots. 60 years and still no progress :p

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#45

Do you really have to be a math genius to work as a game dev? I can see you would need very solid math and physics to build the next gen 3d graphics/physics engines although I remember an interview with John Carmack where he said that even he wasn't as good a mathematician as people thought he was. Surely there's plenty of code that goes into games that isn't advanced linear algebra? Like code for networking , game s…

You may not need to be a math genius, but it severely limits what you can do. There are much fewer programmers working on game logic and many more resources devoted to graphics, physics, pathfinding, AI, tools, and so on. And if you aren't a high-powered dynamo, your chances of getting into the industry at all is low. Plus you may not use it, but the logical framework and understanding of math is crucial to developer…

From my limited experience writing simple crappy 3D engines and using pre-built engines such as Torque. You don't need much math knowledge at all.

* If you actually writing an engine, maybe some linear algebra, calculus. OpenGL/DirectX provides quite a bit of this out of the box. Yes you need to develop some special skills but nothing amazing.

* AI in games is generally heavily scripted. There is some use of common AI ideas in RTS games, for example Monte-Carlo Markov Chains was used in Dark Reign (I think Unreal tournament 2k4 did this as well). It's nothing fancy, most AI in games could be written by someone that took an undergraduate AI class. Writing AI is more about understanding the players expectation of the game.

* Pathfinding is also heavily scripted. In many cases they will just define tracks for NPCs to move on, the NPCs will move to the nearest track and then follow it to their destination.

>There are much fewer programmers working on game logic and many more resources devoted to graphics, physics, pathfinding, AI, tools, and so on.

Many game companies are using an out of the box engine, the jobs are in scripting the game which is primarily game logic and backend stuff, just really boring game logic.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#46
I know a lot of people who have for profit degrees. I can't think of even one that's not stuck in a dead end low paying job, constantly complaining on social media about how they can't seem to find a job that will put their "talent" to use.

It's like they have no idea that for profit degrees are a great way to get your resume auto-chucked in the trash. (Good luck trying to talk to them about it though. Oh boy...)

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#47

Do you really have to be a math genius to work as a game dev? I can see you would need very solid math and physics to build the next gen 3d graphics/physics engines although I remember an interview with John Carmack where he said that even he wasn't as good a mathematician as people thought he was. Surely there's plenty of code that goes into games that isn't advanced linear algebra? Like code for networking , game s…

Between gameplay programming and tools, a significant portion of the programming staff of a AAA game will not be overwhelmingly mathematically inclined. That's only one of many outright lies in this article.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#48

What about the good amount of kids that take part in the modding community? A lot of them aren't super geniuses, but they are passionate and competent and work on scripting existing engines, map-editors, and so forth. Is that not a viable route for aspiring game developers? It feels a little unfortunate if that's the case. This will sound astoundingly naive, I'm sure, but I really feel like our society is pretty crue…

Modding is a great way to get in the industry, especially into the design jobs the OP claims don't exist.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#49
I think that's more good than bad, as long as they intend to make video games. Start to finish, do something. 2d RPG on iOS? Go at it. That's a great motivation for getting into CS: wanting to make things.

If they want to be "idea guys" who just go around saying, "dragons should be blue", then they need to be told that the world doesn't really work that way, and that "idea guys" who refuse to do real work are not seen as adults and generally loathed and pitied, not taken seriously. Real designers work, and hard, and most of the great designers are programmers or artists in addition.

It's after college that they will realize that there are plenty of things more interesting than most video games: machine learning, scientific computing, compilers. But if video game design is the gateway drug, then that works.

What a lot of young people need to consider is that "follow your passion" is the worst advice in the world. You shouldn't do something you hate, but if your work is what you've wanted to do since you were 5, you'll hate being a subordinate. Absolutely no one says, "a subordinate" when asked (at 5) what he wants to be when he grows up. If your passion causes you get into conflict with bikeshedding executives who have terrible ideas but can fire you, then avoid. That advice should be, "find work you enjoy, and transition to your passion when you're no longer a subordinate".

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#50

Do you really have to be a math genius to work as a game dev? I can see you would need very solid math and physics to build the next gen 3d graphics/physics engines although I remember an interview with John Carmack where he said that even he wasn't as good a mathematician as people thought he was. Surely there's plenty of code that goes into games that isn't advanced linear algebra? Like code for networking , game s…

Hey, you would have thought SimCity would have needed "strong math abilities". But no. Bottom line is, these things don't have to be "accurate", they can bumble along faking it, so given the lack of scientific rigour the industry clearly doesn't require strong math.
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