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So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

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Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#31
Hello!

I own a game company (www.kidoteca.com) and I still own legally a sorta bankrupt game company (www.agfgames.com don't expect much on that site, it is sorta bankrupt for a good reason).

Also I worked with mobile games, and mobile apps that are not games at all.

And I went to a game school (I have a bachelor degree in Game Design and Planning).

First, the game industry as a whole, suck, the pay is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE.

One year when I was particularly cash strapped, I dumped the game industry and went to a normal mobile dev job. My wage jumped BLOODY FIVE FOLD (I am not kidding).

Now that I am back working with games, I am earning half the money I was (some people might ask: why you are doing it? it is because I love doing what I do... and I won't switch unless someone offer me like 6 figures USD).

Beside the huge pay gap, the game industry is also very toxic, full of crunch, and full of jerks. Some people say it has rampant sexism. It is not sexism, actually most guys are not sexist at all (actually it is easier to find white knights than misoginists), but it is filled with jerks of all kind, noone is safe, NO ONE. You will get bullied for being female, male, black, white, asian, red hair, black hair, bad teeth, too good teeth, rich, poor, too good Team Fortress 2 skills, too bad skills, not liking Minecraft, liking Minecraft... People will just hate you, period. It would be like living and working with 4chan 24/7 (or just look at the most popular game forum: NeoGAF)

And finally, making games is HARD, DON'T do it because you think you like games you will like it, you will not, there are lots of boring tasks and crazy tasks. Do it only if you like what you have to do (or if you are good and can tolerate it).

Also, as consequence of making games being HARD, expect failed projects, companies, jobs, even marriages, game industry has lots of those.

And remember, although making games pushes you hard and forces you to learn a lot, you will find that your skills are quite unique and not much good for the rest of the market (With few exceptions of some specialities, like backend engineers or tool programmers), there are not much companies there wanting someone that can script levels in awesome ways, or that want a module file musician. And for coders, commonly in the game industry you might end learning Lua... Then good luck finding a non-game job that use that.

All that said, I can say...

Hell, I still love my job!

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#32
post #19

I worked in the video game industry for about six years. I worked for both major publishers and some startup MMOs. Specifically, I was doing online infrastructure kind of stuff. The gaming industry wasn't something I was actively trying to get into, and I had worked in telecommunications and manufacturing prior to this. When the big telecom I was working on started losing customers back in 2001, I knew what was about…

I think the game industry is magical because its one of the toughest. (yea, I'm ex OMHUGEGAMECOMPANY too)

Its like having to found a new startup every year while having to converge 4+ major disciplines to create products (software, art, music, writing, and more).

Brilliant fun, with steep challenges on every angle. @jmomo you sound a little jaded. Glad things are going better for you.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#33
> You do not go to college to 'learn' talent. You are either born with it or not.

Can't say I agree with this entirely. I absolutely agree that going to college for four years will not make you into a good artist. But "being born with it" will not make you a good artist either.

Hammering away at it two hours a day from age 12 to 22 will make you a good artist. You may never be a great one (that is where being born with it comes in). But you will be a good one. And the same is true for most pursuits.

There was a great forum post a while ago where some guy could barely put together a stick figure and three years later (after an hour a day, every day) he was making oil paintings that people would actually pay for. I can't remember where though. Anyway, that sort of thing has nothing to do with talent. It's hard work and sticking to it.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#35
post #19

I worked in the video game industry for about six years. I worked for both major publishers and some startup MMOs. Specifically, I was doing online infrastructure kind of stuff. The gaming industry wasn't something I was actively trying to get into, and I had worked in telecommunications and manufacturing prior to this. When the big telecom I was working on started losing customers back in 2001, I knew what was about…

I do agree that the gaming schools are mostly scams, but we're also simultaneously witnessing a shift in purpose and incentives to enter the field.

Hobby game dev is a Real Thing now and can be picked up by people without coding skills(via tools like Twine or Game Maker). Those tools are only going to get better, and the market for readymade assets is only going to grow. The cost of video game creation is likely to go down so sharply in years to come that we won't have anything resembling the industry status quo, which is tainted all over by cost and financing issues that drive all of the things we currently rail against(crunch, risk-aversion, socially detrimental profit-seeking, monocultural demographics).

As well, if we treat "gamification" as a core organizational goal, instead of a consultant's buzzword, then one can imagine a future in which new, forward-thinking organizations will find reasons to keep game designers on staff.

The transition towards low-budget indie efforts is a great immediate improvement. Although most who try won't be able to afford to do it full-time for very long, in that case crunch is self-enforced. We'll have a lot of passionate moonlighters instead of angry worker drones.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#36

Do you really have to be a math genius to work as a game dev? I can see you would need very solid math and physics to build the next gen 3d graphics/physics engines although I remember an interview with John Carmack where he said that even he wasn't as good a mathematician as people thought he was. Surely there's plenty of code that goes into games that isn't advanced linear algebra? Like code for networking , game s…

You may not need to be a math genius, but it severely limits what you can do. There are much fewer programmers working on game logic and many more resources devoted to graphics, physics, pathfinding, AI, tools, and so on. And if you aren't a high-powered dynamo, your chances of getting into the industry at all is low.

Plus you may not use it, but the logical framework and understanding of math is crucial to developers in general. I have yet to meet a good software developer who wasn't at least competent at collegiate-level math.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#37

Unnecessarily negative. If your teenager has a dream, let him/her do the hard work to achieve that dream. Along the way, life will happen, and that's fine. Following one's own dream is a vastly better option than meandering through life without any purpose, or in a parentally-decreed career. On a factual level, I know employees at many of the firms name-dropped in this article, and if they're super geniuses, they hid…

The main thing he's railing against are the "video game design" degree/certificate programs that are constantly promoted on daytime TV. These programs will load your teenager up with debt while promising a dream career, but unless they're already extremely talented in art or math, they're probably not going to come out of the program with the skills they need to have a career in the video game industry. And if they do have the art or math talent, they'll be better off getting an education that's not video-game specific.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#38
post #19

I worked in the video game industry for about six years. I worked for both major publishers and some startup MMOs. Specifically, I was doing online infrastructure kind of stuff. The gaming industry wasn't something I was actively trying to get into, and I had worked in telecommunications and manufacturing prior to this. When the big telecom I was working on started losing customers back in 2001, I knew what was about…

This echoes my experiences in the game industry to a T. And I am conflicted, because my son is one of these goobers who want to make video games. :) But if I can use that desire to get him to focus on skills that would enable him to succeed there (and, by association, anywhere), then I'm OK with it.

Maybe tell the kid that a lot of people say that the game industry will take a heavy toll on a man's mind and body, so if he really wants to make games then he should follow his heart and pursue that passion relentlessly and shamelessly, but he keep an eye on how healthy his mind and body are.

I think I remember dave chappelle saying in an interview that his father told him you need to name your price early. And when people demand more than that from you, it's time to get out or get away from them. I feel like that's relevant. I bailed on the video game industry recently because I was miserably depressed, sickly and malnourished. But hardship builds character and there's something to be said for a person who doesn't shy away from what they believe they're really passionate about even if other people found it to be horrible.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#39

> You do not go to college to 'learn' talent. You are either born with it or not. Can't say I agree with this entirely. I absolutely agree that going to college for four years will not make you into a good artist. But "being born with it" will not make you a good artist either. Hammering away at it two hours a day from age 12 to 22 will make you a good artist. You may never be a great one (that is where being born wi…

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of that portion of the argument either. (Same with the math bit).

I definitely think "I show an aptitude for art and graphic design, and enjoy doing it, so I will attend college to learn and grow" trumps "I have some magical amount of god-given talent."

But maybe that's because I never touched a compiler before college, and it hasn't affected my career.

Re: So your teenager tells you they want to 'make video games' for a living

#40

I wanted to make games and that's how I got into programming. I dropped the game part a few years after that but I kept programming. If a grey haired computer programmer would have told my 12 year old self "just give up because you're not a math genius" I probably wouldn't be a programmer today. So no, don't tell kids they shouldn't want to make games. Because making games is a gateway drug for programmers.

I don't think the author intended this advice for passionate, eager to learn 12 year olds. I think it's targeted towards dangerously naive teenagers who are close to leaving high school with no experience, marketable skills, poor grades, and/or little idea of what they want to study if they go to college, but know they love video games, and are about to be suckered into wasting their youth and parents' money by "game design schools" that emptily promise to turn them into rockstar game-creating wizards. It pains me to describe them this way, because I was friends with many kids like that in high school, but that's what they were: Naive kids who never tried to learn anything on their own or even figure out if the field was something they would actually enjoy working in, but instead held onto a fragile dream while playing video games and masturbating, truly believing that they could just sit on their asses for years and wait for a university or "game design school" to turn them into talented in-demand professional. "Waiting for superman," if you will.

It's totally different for those young enough not to have high school graduation looming over their head. In between the ages of 12 and 17, a middle class kid has a simply mind boggling amount of free time that most people end up utterly wasting most of (myself sadly included). Your kid is doing well by 99% of their peers if they spend a few days or weeks make a pong or breakout clone, drawing character designs, composing a diddy in a tracker, or even spending months on a working project they never finish.

The proper response to the words "I want to make video games" coming out of an elementary, middle, or early high school student's mouth is, I believe, "You know, you're actually perfectly capable of making them right now! It's hard work and you'll learn a lot along the way, but you could totally make something like Space Invaders with a couple weeks of effort, and who know where you'll go from there! Just put your dream game on the back burner for now; you've gotta learn to walk before you can run. Come on, let's go download Love2D (or use some BASIC or GameMaker or JavaScript + canvas or whatever)..."

If they don't give up early and learn:

* That the joy and practice of creating things is almost completely divorced from the act of consuming it

* That creating and understanding even simple things like Pong clones feels incredibly rewarding

* How to teach and train themselves

* To prioritize creative pursuits and learning new things over empty pleasures even 10% of the time

you can be certain they'll go places, whether or not they follow their childhood dream of making video games.

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