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We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

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Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#211

Post by fotbr »

enraged_camel wrote: post #118
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have no respect for programmers working in the penal system unless they're actively breaking prisoners out of jail? Please.

Nice straw man. I think what he is saying is that smart people need to work on fixing the system, for example by making sure people do not get jailed unfairly, rather than propping it up by helping prisoners stay in prison. Personally, I would feel pretty bad if someone who gets jailed for marijuana possession is kept in jail with the use of software I created.

He/she probably worked on the control systems that allow cells to be locked/unlocked from a central point, or something else that mundane. Not some pie-in-the-sky system that determined guilt, which would seem to be where your problem lies.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#213

Post by Miky »

ims wrote: post #175
angersock wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mere rules fetishism to desire that prisoners be kept in prison without respect to what is just and what is right.

If there's erroneous data getting inserted in a database, you go looking for the broken part of the program that is putting it there. You don't mess with the database.

What if the database results in systematic human rights abuse?

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#214

Post by npsimons »

jwoah12 wrote: post #29

> But technologists used to work on big problems. Not First World problems, but whole world problems -- sending humans to the moon, ending poverty, ending disease I see this sentiment a lot these days, and I can't help but wonder if this is a case of looking into the past through rose-tinted glasses. Just like how people always talk about the "good ole' days" while selectively forgetting about everything that was wro…

The article might be more of a personal ponderance than anything, even though the author calls out others. Yes, everything that was wrong back then is being ignored, so that we can focus on a simple fact: most of us are probably not living up to our potential. So it's easier to get into business or write code these days? That's even more reason why we shouldn't be squandering our opportunities! Look at what you do for a living and ask yourself: is it meaningful? Will it truly matter after you're dead and gone? Is it helping to make the world a better place? At a bare minimum, does it make you happy?

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#215

Post by precisioncoder »

orangethirty wrote: post #209
precisioncoder wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other problem that I've noticed is a lack of emphasis on saving. I lived in a lot of poor neighborhoods as well and worked a lot of entry level jobs. I remember working at a catering job making $9/hour that was abusing the catering regulations to get the workers to work 60-70 hour weeks without overtime pay. (It was a shady but legal loophole) I loved it because I had just come out of a bad situation and had some…

Most people can't save. The poorer you are the more expensive things get. Food costs have doubled. So has fuel, which in turn increases utilities. They barely scrape by.

It's circular. You drink because you're depressed because you're poor because you spend all your money on booze. Yes food is expensive, but you can buy a bag of rice and a bag of onions and a bag of potatoes, and eat decent meals of stir fried rice and onions, baked potatoes, onion soup, etc for far less than mcdonalds. Takes almost no time to prepare too. People just don't realize it. That's where targeted education would be really helpful.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#216

Post by moultano »

jalfresi wrote: post #201
angersock wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, think it through. Poster said, "I've contributed to keeping prisoners in prison." This is in no way an inherently good thing--especially given the well-documented clusterfuck that is the judicial system in the US. Have you ever been through the wringer? I don't think that kudos for helping that system is in order, unless it was specifically something like "I wrote software to help schedule inmate times so that vi…

In what way is "keeping prisoners in prison" related to the "well-documented cluster-fuck that is the judicial system in the US"? Keeping prisoners in jail is absolutely required. Determining if they should be in there in the first place is not the responsibility of the prison system, it is a responsibility of the judicial system. It sounds to me like the OP hit the brief on the head.

In the past, jail space limitations have forced states to make hard choices about who they want to keep in jail, with the result that nonviolent offenders are paroled.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#217

Post by jzellis »

wildgift wrote: post #193

It was going OK until he said to get a 40 and drink it on the curb. Fuck you, whatever the fuck your name was.

Why fuck me? I mean, I'm just curious. If you're going to tell a stranger on the Internet "fuck you", it might be illuminating to find out why.

And it's Josh. Josh Ellis. Since you sort-of asked.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#218

Post by duaneb »

kybernetikos wrote: post #199
duaneb wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no need to be confrontational. I disagree, I think that the 'real' anything meme is harmful and should be stopped immediately. > I agree with the suggestion that wealth is generally not the aim that drives the more knowledgeable minds to long-term effect in our industry. I agree with this as well, I just didn't like the idea that if you are driven by money then you aren't a hacker. EDIT: added missing word.

If there are some people who make art for various reasons, and a subset of those people are so driven by the desire to make art that it's almost a compulsion that is more important to them than other things - perhaps even things necessary for survival like eating - and I want to distinguish this subset, how should I do so? Lots of people would choose to say 'artist' and 'true artist' for those sets of people, and whi…

So it's a mental illness now? (Obviously I kid.) but seriously, that excludes hackers from being (for example) parents, because if they aren't eating they aren't paying attention to their kid. I suspect it also means they don't have a social life. If you want to continue the stereotype where hackers are people who care more about their computer work than they do about most other parts of your life (think RMS), then go ahead. I never stopped to think that even though I frequent IRC channels, know words like 'grok' and 'ratfor', and can recite the pdp11 instruction set, I am not a true hacker because even though it's a love of mine, it's still less important to me than things like eating, sleeping, socializing, exercise, friends & family, dating, paying bills, and relaxing. In short, though I call myself a hacker, I am too healthy to be one because I'm not obsessed. However, if someone were to behave as you said, I would refer them to therapy and medication.

I'm not trying to diminish the work of the mentally unsound: some of the greatest hackers and artists, I'm sure, fit your description. But "real" is a horrible word for it in that stinks of elitism and an extremely unhealthy outlook on life. Please don't use it, for the same reason we don't use "real patriot" or "real rock music" or "real literature". It's either subjective or wrong.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#219

Post by Retric »

lurker14 wrote: post #181
Retric wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I save almost 1/4 of my income and I still feel poor in many ways. It's not about spending habits it's being able to survive bad shit financially. A friend of mine had a single seizure while looking for work and could not drive for 6 months plus significant medical bills. IMO, if you can't survive a minor medical issue financially then your not middle class and it's really hard to get there before 35 or if you…

No one is immune to everything forever -- not even billionaire Steve Jobs. your friend wasn't poor before his seizure, but the seizure knocked him down. And of course several countries in the world do provide for the disabled. Even the US provides some support.

Even the US provides some support. If your heath issue prevents you from working for 7 months you get support but at 6 months you qualify for nothing.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#220

Post by blhack »

greghinch wrote: post #192
blhack wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're getting harder and harder to fill because they don't pay anything anymore. A friend of mine quit his apprenticeship as a machinist because he can make more money doing phone tech support for a cable company.

More money than an apprentice machinist or more money than a professional? I would guess the former, which is a pity.

His claim was more than a professional. Apparently going rate for a CNC mill operator is something like $14/hr.

Maybe my friend is full of it (and believe me, I gave him a TON of flak for quitting).

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