We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators • Hacker News Board

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#101

Post by pc86 » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:06 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #90

pc86 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...what? I'm not even going to respond to that troll bait first point of yours, but as for the second, please give some insight as to how a programmer in charge of writing insurance claims processing applications can "fix the base system."

No, think it through. Poster said, "I've contributed to keeping prisoners in prison." This is in no way an inherently good thing--especially given the well-documented clusterfuck that is the judicial system in the US. Have you ever been through the wringer? I don't think that kudos for helping that system is in order, unless it was specifically something like "I wrote software to help schedule inmate times so that vi…

> "Fix the base system" would be something like "I made a simpler marketplace so that care providers (doctors) can directly bill patients, cheaply and transparently."

... while simultaneously violating the agreements they signed with insurance providers and putting themselves out of business?

I don't know about you, but I want prisoners to stay in prison. To make a blanket statement like "[Contributing to keeping prisoners in prison] is in no way an inherently good thing" is just madness.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#102

Post by angrycoder » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:07 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #90

pc86 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...what? I'm not even going to respond to that troll bait first point of yours, but as for the second, please give some insight as to how a programmer in charge of writing insurance claims processing applications can "fix the base system."

No, think it through. Poster said, "I've contributed to keeping prisoners in prison." This is in no way an inherently good thing--especially given the well-documented clusterfuck that is the judicial system in the US. Have you ever been through the wringer? I don't think that kudos for helping that system is in order, unless it was specifically something like "I wrote software to help schedule inmate times so that vi…

So basically you are creating your own context based on your biases to paint the OP as evil because he didn't provide a full, encyclopedic accounting of everything he worked on.

gg internet once again.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#103

Post by duaneb » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #45

We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators... That's a fine line. The most significant innovations are often iterations. (Google comes to mind.) Why do we do this? Because we want to get rich, of course. I disagree with "Because we want to get rich". And I definitely disagree with "of course". Real hackers do this because we just have to . It just so happens that currently it's also a grea…

Let's stop with this this 'real hacker' bullshit. There's nothing wrong with being motivated by wealth; gates was and now he's the largest charity on the planet.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#104

Post by dangoldin » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:16 PM UTC

orangethirty wrote: post #69

makomk wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, and no matter how desperate businesses claim to be for skilled staff they're hardly going to start training them up themselves either. On-the-job training is dead or dying basically everywhere.

Which is a pity, because I know a lot of talented people who are just dying to get an opportunity to learn on the job. Not college trained, or even really bright, but talented, and willing to learn.

Reminds me of a 60 minute segment that talked about the demand fro skilled labor and how they couldn't find anyone qualified. Some companies are starting to bring back on the job training.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57547101/employers-can...

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#105

Post by mattsfrey » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:21 PM UTC

An interesting thought developed after reading this and the follow up comments. The ultimate translation of the sentiments in this post is simply to focus your efforts on underexploited markets, not some push for greatness in innovation.

Most people end up solving problems they see in their daily lives, which do indeed end up being trifles aka first worlds problems etc given the demographic of start up founders. Focusing on serving third world nations or less developed regions can work to enhance their lives, but its simple a shift in market focus, not a real push to further science or be on the cutting edge of innovation. IMO there is nothing particularly innovating about making a sms based service for Kenyan farmers, it's just a clever use-case of existing technology to serve an underexploited market.

The reason we have a lull in true innovation is because we have hit a saturation point in the larger realm of technology. There is only so much you can do with computers, the internet, and lastly, smart phones. We're waiting on the next big thing.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#106

Post by rmrfrmrf » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:23 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #90

pc86 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...what? I'm not even going to respond to that troll bait first point of yours, but as for the second, please give some insight as to how a programmer in charge of writing insurance claims processing applications can "fix the base system."

No, think it through. Poster said, "I've contributed to keeping prisoners in prison." This is in no way an inherently good thing--especially given the well-documented clusterfuck that is the judicial system in the US. Have you ever been through the wringer? I don't think that kudos for helping that system is in order, unless it was specifically something like "I wrote software to help schedule inmate times so that vi…

So you have no respect for programmers working in the penal system unless they're actively breaking prisoners out of jail? Please.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#107

Post by nollidge » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:23 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #52

cllns wrote: post #10

> A few months ago, a startup developer friend said to me "I don't understand why poor kids, ghetto kids, don't do startups to get out of poverty." I've got just about zero tolerance left for people who don't acknowledge their privilege.

I've got just about zero tolerance left for people who don't view other people as people , instead of embodiments of their socioeconomic-racial-gender status. A person is not their balance sheet, their skin color, or their preferred type of partner. The truth is that--barring sheer crazy--anyone would play the cards dealt to them as well as they can muster. This "Check your privilege" stuff, once a useful exercise in…

False dichotomy. Paying attention to socioeconomic-racial-gender status doesn't mean you're not paying attention to individual variation also.

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#108

Post by mpyne » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:24 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #68

mpyne wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My intuitive, immediate response is that it has something to do with (most?) privilege being an unfair, oppressive institution: one that is self replicating unless it's actively fought. You should be careful how you consider this though. We wouldn't hack a tall person's legs off at the knee to force them to be equally as tall as the rest of us, nor do we give geniuses lobotomies to try and equal out intelligence wi…

That's a very impressive strawman you've got there, given that the comment you replied to didn't argue that people should "punish themselves for being placed in a good situation", let alone that they should be brought down to the level of the rest of the population. All cllns was arguing was that people should be aware of their status in society. Unless, of course, you think that being made aware just how little of w…

Try not to hack down at strawmen yourself.

Upon re-reading the commenter I replied to said he was not quite at the point of speaking about it in terms of moral obligation, which I'll admit to having mis-understood.

But even so, I tried very much to phrase my warning as nothing more than that; a warning. It's perilously easy to get caught up in logical loops that take one far away from ethical and moral underpinnings. Nothing I said takes away from the importance of getting to a state in society where persons are completely able to achieve based on their actions and not their inheritance, but that doesn't mean that all such methods of achieveing that end goal are equally ethical. I hope that cllns takes it in the spirit it was intended, instead of as an exercise to bite back against yet another privileged "cis" piece of shit...

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#109

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:24 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #45

We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators... That's a fine line. The most significant innovations are often iterations. (Google comes to mind.) Why do we do this? Because we want to get rich, of course. I disagree with "Because we want to get rich". And I definitely disagree with "of course". Real hackers do this because we just have to . It just so happens that currently it's also a grea…

[deleted]

Re: We call ourselves innovators, but most of us are really just iterators

#110

Post by nooneelse » Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 7:28 PM UTC

anoncow wrote: post #98

orangethirty wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that its not about getting rich, but about not being broke . A very distinctive difference. Not being broke allows for a good life style. And that's what most of all want.

IMO I want to make things, cool things, innovative things, things that add value to peoples lives, things that will save lives, things that others will appreciate, and things that will make me happy and content. If I could achieve this without having to think about getting rich or becoming broke, I would. I don't want personal fame or appreciation either. I just want to be. I just want to do.

Are you envisioning a monastic-like group dedicated to turning productive making toward eradicating human suffering and the like?