The Impact of Dropping the SAT
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The Impact of Dropping the SAT
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Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#2The point of the SAT in the first place was to increase diversity. Back then, it meant smart kids who weren't part of the establishment. Now, they want to get rid of it to increase diversity. Except, now it means stupid kids who aren't part of the establishment. The only group that remains the same are the losers, and that's the whole point.
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#3The point of the SAT in the first place was to increase diversity. Back then, it meant smart kids who weren't part of the establishment. Now, they want to get rid of it to increase diversity. Except, now it means stupid kids who aren't part of the establishment. The only group that remains the same are the losers, and that's the whole point.
I'm not sure what you mean by "establishment" in this context, other than my guess that I'm not part of the establishment.
After edit: Quite a few scholars contend that for a long time the student characteristic that has set college availability even more than SAT scores is family income. Laura D'Andrea Tyson, one of President Clinton's economics advisors, called for taking student family income more into account in admissions back in 2003:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_27/b3840045_...
Several studies and journalistic reports have shown that in previous years, student income limited college choices more than student test scores:
http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Education/carnrose.pdf
http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/05/a-thumb-on-the-scale.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/financial-aid-leveragi...
http://www.jkcf.org/assets/files/0000/0084/Achievement_Trap....
Now some colleges claim to have outreach to increase socioeconomic diversity on campus:
http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2008/11...
Based on what I have heard in anecdotes about this year's admission results, Princeton, which was the first college in the Ivy League to announce a no-loan financial aid policy, is in earnest about admitting more students from low-income backgrounds.
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#4The point of the SAT in the first place was to increase diversity. Back then, it meant smart kids who weren't part of the establishment. Now, they want to get rid of it to increase diversity. Except, now it means stupid kids who aren't part of the establishment. The only group that remains the same are the losers, and that's the whole point.
I'm not sure what you mean by "establishment" in this context, other than my guess that I'm not part of the establishment. After edit: Quite a few scholars contend that for a long time the student characteristic that has set college availability even more than SAT scores is family income. Laura D'Andrea Tyson, one of President Clinton's economics advisors, called for taking student family income more into account in…
Establishment meant WASPs. Brandeis was set up as the Jewish Harvard because high-performing Jewish high schoolers were getting passed over for Ivy League admission for legacy WASPs. After World War II, the Ivies opened up considerably and the "need" for a Jewish school diminished although it maintains its identity (the same as HBCUs, for example).
The issue of the SATs still being a fantastic determinant of first year college success says something, but I'm not sure what. Perhaps the colleges would let in more minorities, but they'd not perform as well? Would those minorities do better since more of them would get in and they wouldn't be as isolated as they are now?
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#5The submitted article says,
"These models suggest that any move away from the SAT or ACT in competitive colleges results in significant gains in ethnic and economic diversity. But the gains are greater for colleges that drop testing entirely, as opposed to just making it optional. (To date, only one institution -- Sarah Lawrence College -- has taken that step.)"
How does Sarah Lawrence College
http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.j...
78% Women 22% Men
37% in top 10th of graduating class 84% in top quarter of graduating class 98% in top half of graduating class
39% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher 25% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74 14% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49 16% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24 5% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99 1% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49
compare with Harvard
http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.j...
51% Women 49% Men
1% American Indian/Alaskan Native 19% Asian/Pacific Islander 8% Black/Non-Hispanic 7% Hispanic 41% White/Non-Hispanic 10% Non-Resident Alien 15% Race/ethnicity unreported
95% in top 10th of graduating class 100% in top quarter of graduating class
or Princeton
http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.j...
50% Women 50% Men
97% in top 10th of graduating class 100% in top quarter of graduating class
or MIT
http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.j...
46% Women 54% Men
1% American Indian/Alaskan Native 25% Asian/Pacific Islander 9% Black/Non-Hispanic 14% Hispanic 34% White/Non-Hispanic 9% Non-Resident Alien 7% Race/ethnicity unreported
97% in top 10th of graduating class 100% in top quarter of graduating class
in student diversity?
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#6I love how diversi-crats treat college education as a fungible commodity - if we can just get more minorities into the Ivy League, we'll magically solve all of their problems. Putting someone into an academic environment which is too far beyond his capabilities is a bad idea.
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#7I love how diversi-crats treat college education as a fungible commodity - if we can just get more minorities into the Ivy League, we'll magically solve all of their problems. Putting someone into an academic environment which is too far beyond his capabilities is a bad idea.
Putting someone into an academic environment which is too far beyond his capabilities is a bad idea.
I agree with this statement of policy. How do you think a college admission office ought to judge what an applicant's capabilities are?
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#8So there are at least two interpretations of this data (I'll admit I skimmed a bit torward the end).
1) The SAT is measuring things other than academic ability/achievement, particularly non-academic cultural differences between a significant portion of the cited minorities and those having more success getting into SAT-mandatory institutions. This seems to be implicit in many calls for diversity.
2) The SAT IS a good measure of academic ability/achiement/admissibility, and statistically speaking, the cited minorities just aren't as likely to have the requsite levels of whatever academic oomph the test is measuring, presumably for environmental reasons.
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#9I love how diversi-crats treat college education as a fungible commodity - if we can just get more minorities into the Ivy League, we'll magically solve all of their problems. Putting someone into an academic environment which is too far beyond his capabilities is a bad idea.
Agreed. This is the fundamental flaw with the affirmative action and other diversity advocates.
Artificially increasing diversity is institutional racism which only serves to mitigate a symptom, not eliminate a cause. Rather than forcibly put more minorities through college, we should improve schools in poor and underprivileged neighborhoods.
Unfortunately, this real solution may take 10 to 20 years to see results... which is far shorter than the average term in public office.
Re: The Impact of Dropping the SAT
#10I love how diversi-crats treat college education as a fungible commodity - if we can just get more minorities into the Ivy League, we'll magically solve all of their problems. Putting someone into an academic environment which is too far beyond his capabilities is a bad idea.
Putting someone into an academic environment which is too far beyond his capabilities is a bad idea. I agree with this statement of policy. How do you think a college admission office ought to judge what an applicant's capabilities are?
Maybe we could put together some sort of test...