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Quote Meritocracy Unquote

braythwayt.com

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Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#81
post #23

The word "meritocracy" comes from a satire, The Rise of the Meritocracy . It would be as if people were using the word "doublethink" like it was a great idea. The author's point is that social class is now guarded through education, and the most successful people give their children the best education. There is no longer the opportunity to work your way up from the mail room to the CEO chair. All the positions above…

Doublethink really is a great idea. It's a tool, and it can be used for good just as it can be used for evil.

Personally, I use it with many of my relatives.

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#82
After reading the article , uncomfortable thoughts began to float into my consciousness . A sense of unease at having to confront the hypocrite within .

We as a species have progressed so far and have built up such complex societies that life seems far removed the Darwinian struggles of the jungle . Perhaps stemming from an innate sense of fairness or hoping to maximise societal potential we try and impose our own mechanisms on top of this existential struggle . Any measure that is at odds with this underlying abstraction is doomed to fail . So we must try and allocate resources and authority to those who can best use it .

The ideal system would be where no person has any right to complain about his situation as he has been given what he rightly deserved . How deserving he is depends on his merit which actually depends on the resources the very system gave him in the first place . So meritocracy has to go back all the way back to the beginnings of society and maybe even deeper. But people would still be unequal .

In this light Platos solution of the noble lie dosent seem so unfair . From Wikipedia :

Plato presented the Noble Lie (gennaion pseudos, γενναῖον ψεῦδος) in a fictional tale, wherein Socrates provides the origin of the three social classes who compose the republic proposed by Plato; Socrates speaks of a socially stratified society, wherein the populace are told "a sort of Phoenician tale":

"The earth, as being their mother, delivered them, and now, as if their land were their mother and their nurse, they ought to take thought for her and defend her against any attack, and regard the other citizens as their brothers and children of the self-same earth. . . While all of you, in the city, are brothers, we will say in our tale, yet god, in fashioning those of you who are fitted to hold rule, mingled gold in their generation, for which reason they are the most precious — but in the helpers, silver, and iron and brass in the farmers and other craftsmen. And, as you are all akin, though for the most part you will breed after your kinds, it may sometimes happen that a golden father would beget a silver son, and that a golden offspring would come from a silver sire, and that the rest would, in like manner, be born of one another. So that the first and chief injunction that the god lays upon the rulers is that of nothing else are they to be such careful guardians, and so intently observant as of the intermixture of these metals in the souls of their offspring, and if sons are born to them with an infusion of brass or iron they shall by no means give way to pity in their treatment of them, but shall assign to each the status due to his nature and thrust them out among the artisans or the farmers. And again, if from these there is born a son with unexpected gold or silver in his composition they shall honor such and bid them go up higher, some to the office of guardian, some to the assistanceship, alleging that there is an oracle that the city shall then be overthrown when the man of iron or brass is its guardian."

The fictional Socrates, created by Plato, proposes and claims that if the people believed "this myth . . . it would have a good effect, making them more inclined to care for the state and one another.This is his noble lie: "a contrivance for one of those falsehoods that come into being in case of need, of which we were just now talking, some noble one. . . ."

A meritocracy is just a more sophisticated and more fair version of the noble lie where we substitute "merit" instead of a metal without being aware that merit might also be related to being born in a certain class.

Then there is the ascertaining "responsibility" or "credit" . The author seems to be differentiating between the two definitions on the basis of how much credit(right to be smug?) the victors in a meritocracy can take for their sucess. Then we disappear down a philosophical wormhole into the land of determinism , nature vs nurture etc . I try resolve this by consoling myself that maybe this meritocratic victory isnt really a victory . Maybe the theory that some people are higher and up and some people are lower down isnt applicable to ranking human beings . Its like asking whether the lion is the meritocratic victor in the jungle foodchain and the rest of the animals are the losers . Its one giant interdependent chain in which everything has its place .

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#83
The article has some good points. However, it loses a lot of credit by waving off Donald Trump's successes as being the result of a monetary investment not accessible to the many. Trump's real success comes from the education available to him via his father and his father's company, also not accessible to the many - but how many children have successful businessmen birthed who never surpassed or even matched their forebears the way Donald Trump did Fred Trump? While he did have an advantage starting out, Trump succeeded on his merits far more than most children of the wealthy and successful do.

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've just made it a circular argument. Why is it a meritocracy? Because the meritorious survive. Why did the meritorious survive? Because it's a meritocracy. Value and virtue are not the same thing, is the problem.

> Why did the meritorious survive? Because it's a meritocracy. No, the meritorious survive because you can't cheat the universe. I'm saying you can't make the world meritocratic because it already is and it's not changeable. You can only align yourself with how the world works so you don't get screwed. For example, let's say I'm an employer and I decide to hire the least competent candidate for a new job. I, as the e…

My point is that you're taking what is and then applying the label "meritocracy" to it. But the world itself has no moral content, it's humans who create and apply it.

Meritocracy is essentially a statement that people are rewarded according to their merits, whatever those might be. It carries baggage in the form of an unstated moral component riding shotgun. If you ask people whether "meritocracy" is the same as "natural selection", they will tend not to agree, because merit implies a degree of human agency that is more than merely current emergent phenomena.

The confusion of value and virtue, or natural selection and meritocracy, causes all sorts of trouble. The philosophers have had long beard-stroking discussions about all this under the heading of "teleology".

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#85

First of all, I absolutely agree with the general sentiment of this article. And I don't mean to nitpick, but I just want to point out something about this bit: But we don’t ask why they know their stuff. How did they get into a good university? Depending on exactly how you define "good university", I contend that the importance of this may be overstated. For the sake of argument, let's go with the idea that to many…

This is bad statistics. You're cherry-picking the state schools to consider (plus what Evbn said). The S&P 500 has ~500 CEOs, so some random deviation is to be expected. (This is purely a methodological comment; I haven't looked at any data either way. I agree, at least, that going to a state school should not mean that your life is over.)

I think the point was; one can cherry-pick with deviation, as they are not _that_ far apart. The parent contends the overstated-ness, not that they are equal.

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#86
post #23

The word "meritocracy" comes from a satire, The Rise of the Meritocracy . It would be as if people were using the word "doublethink" like it was a great idea. The author's point is that social class is now guarded through education, and the most successful people give their children the best education. There is no longer the opportunity to work your way up from the mail room to the CEO chair. All the positions above…

Those at the bottom deserve to be there. I didn't put this in the article, but a few hours later I think this is an interesting point, thank you. If the post's proposition is correct and that "meritocracy" is all about minimal false positives, then we can also agree that there are people at the bottom who are qualified, but that's a cost of setting up a system optimized for minimizing false positives. I know from man…

> This isn't a problem until people start assuming that anyone who wasn't hired is terrible or doesn't deserve to work.

This, indeed, is where things get very dicey. Meritocracy tends to converge on winner-takes-all markets, which result in an extreme inequality of outcomes and all the socioeconomic harms that entails.

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#87
post #23

The word "meritocracy" comes from a satire, The Rise of the Meritocracy . It would be as if people were using the word "doublethink" like it was a great idea. The author's point is that social class is now guarded through education, and the most successful people give their children the best education. There is no longer the opportunity to work your way up from the mail room to the CEO chair. All the positions above…

The etymology of the term is not the same as the etymology of the idea. The idea goes back at least centuries, if not millennia. That popularized term was coined in a work satirizing the idea, doesn't intrinsically make the idea satirical or a bad idea always deserving of satire.

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#88
The essay hits on the right notion but I think needs to be expanded further. Bottom line is that the most important quality of a leader is that people will follow them. While the individual is a significant factor in this, context/circumstance are also important. Often the ideal combination of leadership "merit" might not reside in a person who is of particularly great "merit" outside of a particular leadership role (though it is pretty rare in someone who is absolutely useless outside of the role).

Also note that it is people _will_ follow them; it's about the future and therefore speculative. No amount of examination can confidently predict who will speculatively be best able to lead.

A "meritocracy" therefore is founded on the notion that the intellectual talent and past accomplishments can confidently predict leadership ability for a context that we can't entirely predict... Yeah, when you got that nailed down, let me know. ;-)

At best a "meritocracy" functions by making an educated guess, based on past evidence, who is best able to fulfill a role, regardless of whether that person's currently role is being fulfilled with any degree of merit. In short: it is undeniably imperfect, though one case make a case it does at least as good a job of selecting candidates as any other mechanism... with the possible exception of a democracy (it's kind of hard to beat working off who the electronic says they'll follow). But more than that, it has a problem: people like meritocracies because they feel like whomever is in charge has "earned" the right to be there by virtue of having the best record of _past_ accomplishment... despite the fact that a well functioning meritocracy would select based on the expected record of _future_ accomplishment, not on the record of _past_ accomplishment.

This subtle difference eventually leads to disappointment, disillusionment, and cynicism, which is undermines the integrity of the leadership of an organization, if not the organization as a whole. In short: even assuming you overcame the issues of observability raised by the article, a utopian meritocracy might not be the utopia imagined by its subjects, which can lead to an unstable society...

Re: Quote Meritocracy Unquote

#90

The tl;dr at the bottom is elegant. I might start doing that.

In the old days that's what we used to call a summary. If you like that sort of thing and think you might like to do it yourself, reading up on how to write essays and the like will be very informative.
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