Live data from Hacker News

Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

news.ycombinator.com

111–120 of 212 posts

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#111

I like this: tl;dr if it'll take the company more effort to reply to your email than you put into sending it, you're doing it wrong. I don't particularly care whether it is an employer's market or an employee's market. My rule of thumb is that if your email is going to jobs@foo.com, you can send anything you want. But if you are sending an email to a person by name, it is a matter of courtesy to write a personal note…

agree with this, actually I prefer to write to people who post @ rather than jobs@.

I feel it is a more personalized chat :)

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#112

I tested this and when I send two line replies to the ads in the hirin thread I get a better response than when I send my CV. Go figure.

From your experience, does this two lines reply works as well when you address it to a named email instead of job@company.com ?

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#113

I've applied to many positions (internships) advertised in these threads with a lot of effort to craft each email for each of them. I don't speak english so often so it took me a very great amount of effort to do this. Got only 1 reply, the others didn't even bother saying "Thanks for applying" or anything. I don't know if this behavior is normal but I would expect a bit more from hirers advertising on HN. Especially…

I almost stopped replying to HN job posts because of that. One time I even tracked a personal email on the company as their jobs@ email was bouncing and I wrote to the ceo (only email I could find) to let them know about it. Forget about a thank you, not even a reply.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#114
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rockstars" may be a myth... but developers who are exponentially more effective than others, with more maintainable code are not.

Exponentially more effective, meaning that what Joe writes in 3 years Jim can write in one day?

No.

Exponential effectiveness can only come from improving maintainability, readability and reducing code size. Fact that minimalistic approach also diminishes original development time is only a minor side effect. By the way, a true rockstar developer most of the time reduces code size and improves readability while adding features.

So when you see next time a commit, that adds features and reduces code size, - you know who you are dealing width.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#115
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rockstars are a myth. So are low-level engineers who "know what they're doing." Hire smart people who can learn new things instead of resume bullet points and/or mythological creatures.

> Rockstars are a myth No they are not. One would think it's easy to find smart people who can learn new things , but I've dealt with both young and senior developers (by senior I mean writing code 15+ years) and was amazed how most of them feel comfortable being completely ignorant of new technologies/libraries/frameworks/best practices/whatever. I've met a rockstar the other day, and could feel him being the one I'…

Trying to hire rockstars is a waste of time.

You should hire someone if they will create more value than it costs to employ them. That's it. It is irrational to do anything otherwise.

So many SV companies seem obsessed with creating islands of purity.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#116
post #106
post #8

I'd take the opposite approach: be glad when applicants send such poor cover letters because it immediately lets you know you should NOT waste your time on them. Some one who would send such a bad boilerplate cover letter is lazy for not sending an actual letter, technically inept for sending links to a private LinkedIn profile, and has a poor theory of mind regarding what an employer would like to see. This especial…

Cover letters are useless. Really, try to have some empathy for people trying to get jobs in a tough market (I guess this doesn't apply to the currently employed or developers...). You have to apply to a LOT of stuff, and employers almost never give the courtesy of a confirmation or any sort of response/rejection. It takes a LOT of time to put contact info into Word, change around your cover letter template, save, an…

They're not useless. I discard any application I get that doesn't have a cover letter. I'm WAY more interested in your cover letter than your resume as it tells me a lot more about you than your dot-point-resume will ever tell me.

To be fair, the job ads I place specifically tell you what to put in a cover letter. So if you reply without one, then it's a super quick filter to see that you didn't even read the ad.

If you don't want the job enough to read the ad, I don't want you enough to read your resume.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#117
post #20
post #13

I was absolutely with you until but it is a hirers' market which, even if it is (and that's debatable), is not the correct reason for anyone to behave differently. In this case, applicants should not be reading the actual postings because it's a hirers' market and hirers are now somehow considered royalty. Instead, applicants should be reading them because it's basic curtesy and not doing it ends up wasting everybody…

It is absolutely a hirers' market if the market is for a low-level coder. Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need. It's a hirees' market at the rockstar level, as always.

Please do not propagate that "rockstar" word. Recruiters are bad enough as it is.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#118
post #102
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rockstars are a myth No they are not. One would think it's easy to find smart people who can learn new things , but I've dealt with both young and senior developers (by senior I mean writing code 15+ years) and was amazed how most of them feel comfortable being completely ignorant of new technologies/libraries/frameworks/best practices/whatever. I've met a rockstar the other day, and could feel him being the one I'…

I'm not a rockstar at all (I'm barely passable) but I would never work on a project not understanding the entire tech stack, from the base language to all libraries in play. That is how you get security gotchas where you dump your passwords in plaintext or let anyone into the admin panel. I've spent the last 3 weeks reading documentation around qt 5 in preparation for some 5.1 mobile development I plan on doing, for…

Down to the programming language is hardly the entire stack. There's also the VM the language runs in, the operating system, the assembly language the CPU executes, so on and so on down to the transistors in the CPU. At some point you realize you can't understand the entire stack.

(In case you thought these issues didn't affect you: http://bugs.python.org/issue13703)

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#119
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cover letters are useless. Really, try to have some empathy for people trying to get jobs in a tough market (I guess this doesn't apply to the currently employed or developers...). You have to apply to a LOT of stuff, and employers almost never give the courtesy of a confirmation or any sort of response/rejection. It takes a LOT of time to put contact info into Word, change around your cover letter template, save, an…

They're not useless. I discard any application I get that doesn't have a cover letter. I'm WAY more interested in your cover letter than your resume as it tells me a lot more about you than your dot-point-resume will ever tell me. To be fair, the job ads I place specifically tell you what to put in a cover letter. So if you reply without one, then it's a super quick filter to see that you didn't even read the ad. If…

I discard any employer that requires a cover letter. Cover letters don't tell you anything. If you think they do, you don't know how most people write them, and you probably miss a lot of good candidates.

It's an unreasonable demand. You're not the only place that I am applying. Either I send all fifteen of you a generic cover letter (which is likely no better than not sending one), or I customize it for each of you, which probably takes about another hour per application. It takes you 5 minutes to read.

If you like my application, I have to cut time out of my work day for everyone at your company to call me back, usually at least three times (recruiter initial contact, manager contact, technical phone screen). After that, I take a couple of my paid vacation days off work for on-site interviews. I have to make arrangements for someone else to look after the kids because I'm out of town overnight and the wife does shift work. I have to work a few more weeks to replenish those vacation days if it doesn't work out. All the while, I still have timelines and can't tip my current manager off that I'm looking elsewhere. Again, multiply this by a few companies - maybe three or so get to that point. That's costly, but necessary and understandable. At that point, there is serious consideration for a working relationship, so such demands on a candidate's time are more reasonable. And don't forget, at least one of you likely has some sort of programming assignment or problem set that you use after the phone screen, which I will spend several hours on.

To top it off, I'm going to guess that you don't even have the decency to post salary range in your ads. And, your recruiter is going to try and ask me about my salary history, but fail to mention the budget for the position, and my first indication won't come until there is an offer letter.

So, anyone who does this, thanks for self-selecting!

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider the latter to be part of the former. Rejection is painful because of the "simulation heuristic" -- imagining yourself enjoying working at the place / going on dates with the person. The simulation heuristic works the other way too. You can easily imagine being disappointed by the new restaurant. You know what? Let's just go to Shmookey's, we always go to Shmookey's on Thursday and get the steak. edit: actu…

"Don't put all your eggs in one basket" seems appropriate. Of course, the counter to that is that taking a dump in a thousand baskets also leads to no eggs.

>taking a dump in a thousand baskets also leads to no eggs

While the quote is very funny and I give you that, the analogy doesn't fit. A more apt analogy would be - throwing your eggs without care in a thousand baskets, chances are most eggs will break.

Post reply on HN