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Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

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Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#51

Post by ig1 »

goldfeld wrote: post #42
ig1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's recruited heavily at the entry level, you're mistaken. Even substantial number of computer science graduates lack the capability of basic coding (i.e. "here's the detailed specification of this function; go implement it"). There is substantially more demand than available talent. SF, New York, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. all have huge talent shortages. Even developer markets that were relatively…

I have read that 30% of Standford CS freshmen change majors or dropout because they don't get programming at all. Do you see such a thing in recruiting? That you fear the hire doesn't actually understand the reasoning of algorithms and basic programming structures, and is maybe the type who bullheaded through college memorizing solutions as recipes?

I'm not familiar with that stat but it's perfectly believable. Many people are clearly getting by with a mixture of memorization and trial-and-error rather than understanding.

I think of those who understand algorithmic reasoning (i.e. understand loops, assignment, etc.) they also fall into two categories. Those who can understand more abstract programming concepts (indirect referencing, recursion) and those who can't - you can definitely still be a good programer without understanding those but it will limit the areas you can work in.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#52

Post by braveheart1723 »

prakster wrote: post #12

> "it is a hirers' market". It's NOT a hirer's market; what planet are you living on!

Agreed... it is definitely NOT a Hirer's market... there's a serious shortage in good in developers most major cities ( SF / NYC / London ). Low supply / high demand.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#53

Post by ig1 »

niggler wrote: post #48
ig1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's recruited heavily at the entry level, you're mistaken. Even substantial number of computer science graduates lack the capability of basic coding (i.e. "here's the detailed specification of this function; go implement it"). There is substantially more demand than available talent. SF, New York, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. all have huge talent shortages. Even developer markets that were relatively…

"Even substantial number of computer science graduates lack the capability of basic coding" You misread my statement. A competent mechanical engineer graduate attending college in the past 5 to 10 years has more CS experience and coding ability than most CS graduates. The talent shortage, as it were, comes from restricting your view to the CS and CE fields. To review, this is what i wrote (emphasis added): "Many peop…

I also interviewed many Maths and Engineering graduates and didn't find their abilities to be substantially higher. Also from my experience talking to students at careers fairs most Engineering graduates (other than Elec. Engineers) aren't interested in pursuing software development as a career path.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#55

Post by negrit »

ig1 wrote: post #40
niggler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely a hirers' market if the market is for a low-level coder. Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need. It's a hirees' market at the rockstar level, as always.

As someone who's recruited heavily at the entry level, you're mistaken. Even substantial number of computer science graduates lack the capability of basic coding (i.e. "here's the detailed specification of this function; go implement it"). There is substantially more demand than available talent. SF, New York, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. all have huge talent shortages. Even developer markets that were relatively…

Too bad you're located in London otherwise I would love to show you how good I am at reading a man and then implement the function :-)

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#57

Post by jacques_chester »

softbuilder wrote: post #33
jacques_chester wrote: post #14

I feel like, with a few word replacements, this post and all the replies could come from /r/OkCupid.

I came to roughly the same conclusion from the emails I received from my "How to Hire Me" post. People make all of the mistakes there that they make with online dating. From an abstract point of view it is the exact same problem.

Right, with similar failure modes. For example: people firing copypasta emails to reduce the writing cost per-application / per-message.

When I have an OKC account, my strategy is just to write the first half-funny sentence or two that come to mind, shoot off the message, and move on.

Even when I apply for jobs and write a cover letter, what do I do? A dating site message with a funny accent.

    Dear Companyboss,

    I write in reply to your advertisement of  in the Foobar Herald.

    I am . While working at  
    I used .

    I have included my CV and I look forward to your reply.

    Yours &c &c
Writing short messages isn't because the writers are lazy. It's a rational strategy that maximises coverage and minimises the emotional cost of being rejected after making a large investment.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#58

Post by orangethirty »

pyre wrote: post #45
orangethirty wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably it. Plus there is an added benefit of a reverse filter. I don't want to work with any company that will, at the least, exchange a couple of emails with me. Any company who disqualifies me from just looking at my CV is not a good fit. Team chemistry for me is very important. I don't want to work in a place full of incompatible personalities. Not fun.

Plenty of places with good teams may have poor hiring practices.

Experience has shown me that poor hiring practices == poor team (in general).

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#59

Post by jacques_chester »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #28
Udo wrote: post #13

I was absolutely with you until but it is a hirers' market which, even if it is (and that's debatable), is not the correct reason for anyone to behave differently. In this case, applicants should not be reading the actual postings because it's a hirers' market and hirers are now somehow considered royalty. Instead, applicants should be reading them because it's basic curtesy and not doing it ends up wasting everybody…

fwiw, I'd take that back if I could. It came out wrong and definitely was not intended to imply entitlement on anyone's behalf. I'm willing to put in crazy effort to find the right fit for our company, and I expect the applicant will do the same to find the right workplace/job. I'm not going to waste my time on someone that doesn't value it. I guess like you said: common courtesy, don't waste my time or yours. Why se…

What you're receiving is a bunch of Minimum Viable Job Applications. It's a rational strategy that maximises coverage and minimises disappointment.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#60

Post by alxndr »

gfodor wrote: post #49
moocow01 wrote: post #26

Perhaps you should interpret it as feedback that its not a hirer's market. In a market where most people have many opportunities the incentive to respond with a high effort response is very low. The better thing to do would be to consider the casual emails you get as leads to a potential hire - you'll have to put the effort in. Additionally what you are seeing is likely not by mistake - its an indication that hiring…

There is a difference between "low effort" and rude. Not taking 30 seconds to actually comprehend the position and have enough background to actually write a meaningful email basically would rule you out of me hiring you since it says a lot about how you would be to work with.

You should see the kind of messages I get from recruiters.
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