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Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

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Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#41

Post by tzaman »

calinet6 wrote: post #23
niggler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely a hirers' market if the market is for a low-level coder. Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need. It's a hirees' market at the rockstar level, as always.

Rockstars are a myth. So are low-level engineers who "know what they're doing." Hire smart people who can learn new things instead of resume bullet points and/or mythological creatures.

> Rockstars are a myth

No they are not. One would think it's easy to find smart people who can learn new things, but I've dealt with both young and senior developers (by senior I mean writing code 15+ years) and was amazed how most of them feel comfortable being completely ignorant of new technologies/libraries/frameworks/best practices/whatever.

I've met a rockstar the other day, and could feel him being the one I'd hire immediately. It happens once or twice a year for me.

You might not call them rockstars, but in my book, they are.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#42

Post by goldfeld »

ig1 wrote: post #40
niggler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely a hirers' market if the market is for a low-level coder. Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need. It's a hirees' market at the rockstar level, as always.

As someone who's recruited heavily at the entry level, you're mistaken. Even substantial number of computer science graduates lack the capability of basic coding (i.e. "here's the detailed specification of this function; go implement it"). There is substantially more demand than available talent. SF, New York, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. all have huge talent shortages. Even developer markets that were relatively…

I have read that 30% of Standford CS freshmen change majors or dropout because they don't get programming at all. Do you see such a thing in recruiting? That you fear the hire doesn't actually understand the reasoning of algorithms and basic programming structures, and is maybe the type who bullheaded through college memorizing solutions as recipes?

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#43

Post by mpyne »

niggler wrote: post #17

I've talked to some people who have tried, and the ultimate conclusion was that adverse selection works against you: the people you think are really bright on HN don't end up applying, and the people who reply usually have some problem that makes them unappealing. This is true of all places you could look to hire people, though, so you shouldn't have any higher expectations.

My excuse for not applying is that I'm effectively locked into my current job for the next year or so, and after that I will probably remain locked in due to the difference in medical benefits, and the possibility of paid retirement within a short 8-10 years after that.

I've always wondered what might have been though... I had received a very tentative hiring offer from someone at Intel about 9 years ago... which had been just a few weeks after I'd finally joined the nuclear Navy.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#44

Post by randomor »

There is then the other scenario when candidates put out a well thought out letter after few hours and only to hear no response, black hole. I, for one, do not really get systems like jobvite and no email and direct human contact for hiring developers who you "value".

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#45

Post by pyre »

orangethirty wrote: post #10
frek21 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because once you send the CV they have enough (!) data to make a decision on whether you would be good fit, but with a two line email they can either disregard it or ask for more.

That's probably it. Plus there is an added benefit of a reverse filter. I don't want to work with any company that will, at the least, exchange a couple of emails with me. Any company who disqualifies me from just looking at my CV is not a good fit. Team chemistry for me is very important. I don't want to work in a place full of incompatible personalities. Not fun.

Plenty of places with good teams may have poor hiring practices.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#46

Post by SilasX »

raganwald wrote: post #25

I like this: tl;dr if it'll take the company more effort to reply to your email than you put into sending it, you're doing it wrong. I don't particularly care whether it is an employer's market or an employee's market. My rule of thumb is that if your email is going to jobs@foo.com, you can send anything you want. But if you are sending an email to a person by name, it is a matter of courtesy to write a personal note…

Totally. Your scraper/emailer for Who's Hiring should at least include a sentence like, "I particularly like the part about [random string from posting]". I mean, come on, that's not much harder than fizzbuzz ...

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#47

Post by lhnz »

calinet6 wrote: post #23
niggler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely a hirers' market if the market is for a low-level coder. Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need. It's a hirees' market at the rockstar level, as always.

Rockstars are a myth. So are low-level engineers who "know what they're doing." Hire smart people who can learn new things instead of resume bullet points and/or mythological creatures.

Smart people who can learn new things are the rockstars. (Even though in actuality this term is a joke turned into a marketing term to attract confident developers.)

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#48

Post by niggler »

ig1 wrote: post #40
niggler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely a hirers' market if the market is for a low-level coder. Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need. It's a hirees' market at the rockstar level, as always.

As someone who's recruited heavily at the entry level, you're mistaken. Even substantial number of computer science graduates lack the capability of basic coding (i.e. "here's the detailed specification of this function; go implement it"). There is substantially more demand than available talent. SF, New York, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. all have huge talent shortages. Even developer markets that were relatively…

"Even substantial number of computer science graduates lack the capability of basic coding"

You misread my statement. A competent mechanical engineer graduate attending college in the past 5 to 10 years has more CS experience and coding ability than most CS graduates. The talent shortage, as it were, comes from restricting your view to the CS and CE fields.

To review, this is what i wrote (emphasis added): "Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need."

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#49

Post by gfodor »

moocow01 wrote: post #26

Perhaps you should interpret it as feedback that its not a hirer's market. In a market where most people have many opportunities the incentive to respond with a high effort response is very low. The better thing to do would be to consider the casual emails you get as leads to a potential hire - you'll have to put the effort in. Additionally what you are seeing is likely not by mistake - its an indication that hiring…

There is a difference between "low effort" and rude. Not taking 30 seconds to actually comprehend the position and have enough background to actually write a meaningful email basically would rule you out of me hiring you since it says a lot about how you would be to work with.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#50

Post by lhnz »

Are you insane?

What kind of place do you come from in which jobs are rarer than developers? Aren't you normally paying recruiters through the nose to access me?

(For the record, I'd write a good message if I felt like the job was for A-listers, but the reality is I just read a lot of them and I can tell that most of these places aren't there.)

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