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Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

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Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#451
Monetary economists have a measure called velocity, which is "the average frequency with which a unit of money is spent on new goods and services produced domestically in a specific period of time. Velocity has to do with the amount of economic activity associated with a given money supply." [1] It can be thought of as the "rate of turnover in the money supply" [2]. It is a good indicator of the "health" of a currency.

The annualised velocity of the M2 Money Stock for Q4 2012 2 was 6.152 [2]. That is, the average dollar in the form of notes and coins in circulation (M0), traveller's cheques, checking account/demand deposits, savings deposits, time deposits/CDs under $100 000, and individuals' money market deposits was spent 1.538 times on economically useful activities in the fourth quarter of last year.

The annualised velocity of the Bitcoin Money Stock for Q4 2012 was 1.27. That is, the average Bitcoin in existence was transacted 0.32 times in the last 90 days of 2012. This includes economically useless transfer payments, i.e. transactions not involving the exchange of real goods or services, as well as economically useless hoarded or lost coins, i.e. Bitcoins not in circulation and so less a unit of "money" than a speculative asset (in the case of hoarding). Since this is a ratio, the two balance out, though it is still biased to the downside. For the 30 days ending on 29 March 2013, it was 1.86. Here is what it has been doing since February 2009 [3].

More encouragingly, Bitcoin Velocity has quadrupled YoY. M2 Velocity declined 4% over the same time. I would thus offer, very tentatively, that there is a substantial portion of the Bitcoin economy involved in real transactions (versus financial ones, e.g. trading on an exchange).

Curiously, yet to emerge (to my knowledge [EDIT: which was wrong]) is a majour vendor of Bitcoin mining equipment that accepts Bitcoin as a mode of payment. If that were to happen, the Bitcoin economy would have an endogenous "risk-free rate" in the form of mining yields, with power companies serving as the most salient factor. If it were not for the ceiling on the number of Bitcoins which can come into existence, it could very well have been the first currency pseudo-denominated in energy.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money

[2] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2V?cid=32242

[3] http://imgur.com/f7oFZKb Annualised Bitcoin Velocity, Feb 2009 - March 2013

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#453

Some people here seem to think that this is temporary, that sometime in the future Bitcoin will stabilize into a glorious future global currency -- never mind the new class of cryptobarons it will have created from its inner circle, through shameless hoarding. My question is, what then will happen when Bitcoin stabilizes, that is, when the time to new coin mined approaches practically infinity? Let's assume the globa…

The deflationary nature of bitcoin is by design, yes, but the thing with cryptocurrencies is - if it's somehow unsucessful, people can either ditch the currency and make a new one, or if most of the miners agree by consensu, even change the bitcoin protocol with its deflationary nature itself.

For example, if the economy will be in such a terrible state thanks to the deflation, somebody can do a fork of bitcoin that will not have halved mining reward (and thus not having finite number of bitcoins in existence), and if the miners will jump to this new version (and probably clients, too, not sure about that), this new currency will be used as easily as the old bitcoin.

If I am wrong technically, please correct me.

The nice thing about bitcoin is - nobody enforces anything.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#454

Monetary economists have a measure called velocity , which is "the average frequency with which a unit of money is spent on new goods and services produced domestically in a specific period of time. Velocity has to do with the amount of economic activity associated with a given money supply." [1] It can be thought of as the "rate of turnover in the money supply" [2]. It is a good indicator of the "health" of a curren…

Actually, all of the vendors of the state-of-the-art ASIC mining equipment are accepting Bitcoins as payment.

But interesting analysis. What do you think about the Bitcoin Days Destroyed metric [0] as a way to measure the health of the Bitcoin economy?

[0] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Days_Destroyed

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order to get a real growth of 4% be it per year or per century in such a scenario, you need to find a better use of resources so that with the same resources you may produce an output which is 4% greater than before Let's work through an example. I buy 100 seeds for $1 each. I plant them, let them grow, and harvest the result. I now have 104 seeds. My real growth is 4%! Now I want to sell the seeds back to recou…

Do you suppose that there is some sort of seed-factory producing the seeds at no cost and selling them into the market, or do the other seeds in the market come from plants which produce only 4% y/o/y growth in the number of seeds? In the latter case, has the entire seed-planting industry taken a loss over the last year? And if so, would less people plant the seeds this year, so that planting the seeds would again be…

I like using seeds as an example, because they make a nice toy model. They last a long time, and more of them can be produced through capital goods (that is, other seeds) and labor alone.

In this model, seeds have no inherent depreciation, and our hero would have bought them from a seller, e.g. a storefront. In a deflationary environment, the nominal value of capital goods decreases, so anyone holding seeds, whether as inventory (the seed store) or investment (planted in the ground), would take a loss.

You are correct that, given deflationary expectations, fewer people would plant seeds. That is exactly what this scenario is meant to illustrate. Fewer people doing work is called unemployment!

And to your last question, let us say that seeds can be used as food. As seed suppliers drop out of the market, this inescapable demand for food will indeed drive their price up. Deflationary spirals do not terminate in starvation: equilibrium is reached, because of basic necessities. But the equilibrium is at a lower output level, and with higher unemployment.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#456
post #422
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflation increases the value of holding cash. By definition deflation occurs when the price of a basket of goods decreases. Why invest your money in a basket of goods today when it is going to be cheaper to buy that same basket tomorrow?

Eventually, those suppliers of unwanted goods will stop supplying, and prices will start to rise as demand drops, reversing the deflation.

Why should prices rise when demand drops? Decreased demand yields lower prices.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#457
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cryptobarons it will have created from its inner circle, through shameless hoarding. This isn't 1941 England and bitcoins aren't sugar. Early adopters in the right thing often make money. Usually on HN they are called investors and congratulated. Sour grapes on missing out? (I did too)

I bought 30,000 bitcoins when they were worth less than a penny and sold them all when the value went up to $0.80. Lol, oops. If you don't want to miss out again, buy Litecoins and Namecoins. Litecoin will never be worth as much as BTC (because there will be 80million of them as opposed to 20something million BTC) but it will slowly gain in value as it has some impressive features especially suited for online gaming…

I am not sure about namecoins. Nobody is developing namecoin for a year, there are bugs and security holes and tons of weird decisions in the design.

I don't know enough about litecoins to say.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#458
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cryptobarons it will have created from its inner circle, through shameless hoarding. This isn't 1941 England and bitcoins aren't sugar. Early adopters in the right thing often make money. Usually on HN they are called investors and congratulated. Sour grapes on missing out? (I did too)

I bought 30,000 bitcoins when they were worth less than a penny and sold them all when the value went up to $0.80. Lol, oops. If you don't want to miss out again, buy Litecoins and Namecoins. Litecoin will never be worth as much as BTC (because there will be 80million of them as opposed to 20something million BTC) but it will slowly gain in value as it has some impressive features especially suited for online gaming…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#459
Bitcoins are in a speculative bubble. This bubble is attracting fringe merchants, which provides a veneer of legitimacy to the dramatic speculative rise. Note that there is no way to effectively short bitcoins at this point, so there's no counterbalance to the speculation. When the bitcoin market turns south, it will fall hard as the shallow liquidity evaporates quickly.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#460

Monetary economists have a measure called velocity , which is "the average frequency with which a unit of money is spent on new goods and services produced domestically in a specific period of time. Velocity has to do with the amount of economic activity associated with a given money supply." [1] It can be thought of as the "rate of turnover in the money supply" [2]. It is a good indicator of the "health" of a curren…

Batch #3 of Avalon ASICs were 75 BTC each. They sold out in 15 minutes.

http://launch.avalon-asics.com/

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