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Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

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Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#11

Post by potatolicious »

jawns wrote: post #3

I found out about my current employer (Monetate) through a HN "Who's Hiring" post, and we've hired several other developers who first heard about us here. I agree with OP that HN readers have a reputation for quality, and I'm surprised that he's seeing so many low-effort responses. I've seen several employers set up "nerd hurdles" that require potential applicants to do something that takes a modicum of effort (and t…

> "I agree with OP that HN readers have a reputation for quality, and I'm surprised that he's seeing so many low-effort responses."

This shouldn't be that surprising - if indeed you're looking at a pool of highly qualified people you should expect to see less effort in applications.

There's a line to be drawn at being professional, but if the individual is experiencing extreme demand for his/her services, do not expect them to sell you that hard.

> "I've seen several employers set up "nerd hurdles" that require potential applicants to do something that takes a modicum of effort (and talent) before they can apply -- e.g. coding challenges"

I'd be careful about this. I've done some of these when they tickled my fancy, and I've done them when I was impressed by the company enough that I actively wanted to work for them.

Almost everyone in the HN Who's Hiring posts are not in the above category. I'm sure you're working on cool stuff, but one paragraph is not enough to get me to salivate at your position, and not enough for me to invest a considerable amount of time.

If you want applicants to put in more effort, consider marketing yourself as someone worth said effort. It is most certainly not a buyer's market right now (not in the HN crowd anyways). Most Who's Hiring posts don't even include anything meaningful about the employer.

"We're in SF and looking for a Rails guy" is not a very compelling sell.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#13

Post by Udo »

I was absolutely with you until

  but it is a hirers' market
which, even if it is (and that's debatable), is not the correct reason for anyone to behave differently. In this case, applicants should not be reading the actual postings because it's a hirers' market and hirers are now somehow considered royalty. Instead, applicants should be reading them because it's basic curtesy and not doing it ends up wasting everybody's time. If it became an employees' market over night that rule would still apply.

Having the upper hand (imaginary or real) should not play a role here. This is a bad place for expectations of entitlement.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#15

Post by cosmie »

I constantly hear people complain about how few applications they get a response on. Yet, I've always had a pretty great response rate when I start applying.

This advice/note/rant just clarified a potential reason for the differential.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#16

Post by bcoates »

wwweston wrote: post #7

I completely agree that it's courteous (and often more effective) to give the communications you send the level of attention you'd like them to receive. But is this true? > it is a hirers' market I hear a lot about the war for talent and devs having to beat away recruiters with a stick. > Take the time to actually read the posts: just because a listing contains the word "developer" does not mean it's a software devel…

I don't think it's even meaningful enough to be false. Buyer's Market/Seller's Market is a phenomenon of markets with easy substitution and very sticky prices, like houses or street vendor hotdogs.

Both the jobs on offer and the people applying are quite specialized and mostly just looking for a very good match given the massive up-front costs of hiring or taking a new job.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#17

Post by niggler »

I've talked to some people who have tried, and the ultimate conclusion was that adverse selection works against you: the people you think are really bright on HN don't end up applying, and the people who reply usually have some problem that makes them unappealing. This is true of all places you could look to hire people, though, so you shouldn't have any higher expectations.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#18

Post by ownagefool »

wwweston wrote: post #7

I completely agree that it's courteous (and often more effective) to give the communications you send the level of attention you'd like them to receive. But is this true? > it is a hirers' market I hear a lot about the war for talent and devs having to beat away recruiters with a stick. > Take the time to actually read the posts: just because a listing contains the word "developer" does not mean it's a software devel…

I don't think it is true. Sure there are more people than jobs all together but not when you're talking about those over a certian standard in a specific area applying for a specific role, otherwise those employers probably wouldn't be searching via anything but normal channels.

Personally I think it's mostly silly too. If we cut the BS we're talking about a trade of money for skills. If the linkedin has relevant information which you can see, I think it does the job. If it doesn't, then that's a good reason you can probably skip that candidate.

Also I'm sure I won't get any fans here for saying it but I rarely apply for jobs that don't talk remuneration in the ad. Sure I want an employer that fits and I'd rather be working on something I find interesting but ultimately if I wasn't after making money, I wouldn't be working for other people.

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#19

Post by mbetter »

orangethirty wrote: post #10
frek21 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because once you send the CV they have enough (!) data to make a decision on whether you would be good fit, but with a two line email they can either disregard it or ask for more.

That's probably it. Plus there is an added benefit of a reverse filter. I don't want to work with any company that will, at the least, exchange a couple of emails with me. Any company who disqualifies me from just looking at my CV is not a good fit. Team chemistry for me is very important. I don't want to work in a place full of incompatible personalities. Not fun.

> I don't want to work with any company that will, at the least, exchange a couple of emails with me.

You like it when they play hard to get, eh?

Re: Dear HN "Who's Hiring" responders

#20

Post by niggler »

Udo wrote: post #13

I was absolutely with you until but it is a hirers' market which, even if it is (and that's debatable), is not the correct reason for anyone to behave differently. In this case, applicants should not be reading the actual postings because it's a hirers' market and hirers are now somehow considered royalty. Instead, applicants should be reading them because it's basic curtesy and not doing it ends up wasting everybody…

It is absolutely a hirers' market if the market is for a low-level coder. Many people, especially coming from an engineering background, have the requisite programming and computer science experience to do what you need.

It's a hirees' market at the rockstar level, as always.

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