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How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

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Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#21

Post by jordo37 »

joonix wrote: post #19

I don't think humans evolved with alarm clocks. In an ideal world, would you not let yourself sleep as long as your brain deems appropriate? I think sunset and sunrise times would end up meaning a lot more. The post also doesn't seem to account for sleep debt. If you undersleep one night, you may have to sleep longer than normal the next night to make up for it.

I'm fairly sure that's not how sleep debt works and part of the reason its a faulty name.

The idea of sleep debt more refers to the long-term effects of a lack of sleep on your overall health. So if you skimp on hours of sleep during the week but then make them up during the weekend you might feel okay on Sunday, but you have actually physically harmed yourself in some minute way - you have created a sleep debt that you essentially cannot repay.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#22

Post by Aylw »

Xcelerate wrote: post #3

You know how there's people that can get by on 4-5 hours of sleep each night? I think I'm the opposite. Left to my own devices, I will sleep 10-10.5 hours a day. If I wake up with anything less than 9, I feel pretty horrible. Not sure why, but I sure wish I could get by on less.

I thought I was the same way for a long time, but for me the kicker was 'left to my own devices' - I NEVER had anywhere near 8 hours consistently, so on the weekends, I would crash for more than 10 hours at least. My conclusion was that I needed more than 9 hours a day.

Then I went on a year long vacation - and after the first couple months of sleeping over 10 hours naturally - my body finally caught up with its sleep debt, and I was sleeping about 8 hours a day. I was amazed. Turns out I was just sleep deprived. Of course, I do know people who consistently get 9.5 hours day, so your mileage may vary. Just something to think about in this sleep deprived world.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#23

Post by Cacti »

archangel_one wrote: post #17
Cacti wrote: post #7

It's common sense that 8 straight hours per day is not ideal in general, nevermind for everyone. If you check out your sleep rhythms (and with exercise and without stimulants like alcohol, coffee, nicotine, etc.) the ideal is usually something like: 1) sleep 5.5ish hours. 2) wake up at like 3am, work for an hour or two 3) sleep for another 1.5ish hours 4) wake up at dawn and somewhere in the early afternoon take a br…

The ideal is waking up at 3am to do work? I can't think of many things that seem less like common sense than that. In the absence of an alarm or anything to wake me up sooner, I sleep straight through to the morning. I much prefer it that way, to be honest.

There's a term for it that I forget right now... morning sleep maybe? Second sleep?

Whether you call that time when you're awake "work" or not is irrelevant---I just meant that you're up doing something, even if its just reading or thinking or writing or whatever.

It seems counterintuitive but when you're properly rested, fit, and not using any real stimulatives/depressants, and you get in that rhythm, it works very well and comes naturally. Instead of 1 time per day of sleeping and waking up feeling great you get 3 times (pre-dawn, after dawn, then after your afternoon nap).

You just have to be able to do all 3 regularly to make it work, otherwise you skip a nap and you get screwed.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#24

Post by Afton »

Cacti wrote: post #7

It's common sense that 8 straight hours per day is not ideal in general, nevermind for everyone. If you check out your sleep rhythms (and with exercise and without stimulants like alcohol, coffee, nicotine, etc.) the ideal is usually something like: 1) sleep 5.5ish hours. 2) wake up at like 3am, work for an hour or two 3) sleep for another 1.5ish hours 4) wake up at dawn and somewhere in the early afternoon take a br…

> for the same reason everyone knows that 5 small meals per day is much better for you than 2.5 huge meals.

Is 'the same reason' that it's false? Your common sense and mine appear not to jibe.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#25

Post by pasbesoin »

Get your sleep. Give up something else.

Four days to a week of severe sleep deprivation has been demonstrated to push the human body into a state of pre-diabetic crisis (per blood chemistry).

Another perspective: We enjoy sleep. There might be a reason for that, eh?

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#26

Post by ezy »

mathteacher1729 wrote: post #10

There are plenty of variables that influence "productivity" (however that is defined) but I imagine that the amount of sleep required for maximum productivity varies from person to person. In my personal experience I've known people who require 3 to 4 hrs/night, and others (myself included) who need between 8 and 9. During times when I'm feeling my absolute best, physically and mentally, I get about 2 hours of rigoro…

"8 to 10 hours of reproductive work"

Yes, this would tire me out as well. :-)

Seriously, I've found that my normal schedule appears to be 7 hours solid, with a 1.5 hr nap, depending. Without an alarm, I wake up 7 hrs later on the dot (and can't get back to sleep), but then require a nap 8 hrs later to make it through the day. I cannot sustain 6 hrs and a 2-3 hr nap for any length of time (maybe a couple of days before I feel like crap).

I wonder how many different variations of these kinds of cycles there are among the population and how they vary from the 1st to the 3rd world.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#27

Post by SeanDav »

crazygringo wrote: post #6

> “Sleeping 8.5 hr. might really be a little worse than sleeping 5 hr.” How can people even take this kind of pseudo-science seriously? If I sleep for 5 hrs, I'm a complete zombie during the day, unproductive and depressed. If I sleep for 8.5 hrs (which is how long I sleep naturally), I feel great, productive, and happy. I get way more done. There are all sorts of studies showing all the negative effects of not getti…

How is an expert on sleep saying something MIGHT be true now being classed as pseudo science and not to be taken seriously?

Your rebuttal of this "pseudo science" is that you perceive that you personally need 8.5 hours sleep - now that smacks of pseudo science to me.

People are very different. Just because 1 person in a 1000 (or 100 or million or whatever) benefits from 8.5 hours sleep does not necessarily mean that in general one might get more benefit from less than 8.5 hours sleep.

This is not hard science, I doubt it could ever be, but that does not mean it is pseudo science and certainly should not be dismissed out of hand because it does not fit into the model of the world that you have personally.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#28

Post by gavinflud »

"Personally, I know that my productivity takes a dip at 3pm every day. This is exactly where I place my nap, and it has been one of the most powerful ways to bring my productivity back to 100% for a good 1,5 hour session after that."

I'm not sure how much science backs up most points in this post, but I can definitely attest to this point. It's so simple yet so effective. A quick 20-30 minute nap and I am buzzing with energy for the next few hours.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#29

Post by tlarkworthy »

BrianEatWorld wrote: post #9
crazygringo wrote: post #6

> “Sleeping 8.5 hr. might really be a little worse than sleeping 5 hr.” How can people even take this kind of pseudo-science seriously? If I sleep for 5 hrs, I'm a complete zombie during the day, unproductive and depressed. If I sleep for 8.5 hrs (which is how long I sleep naturally), I feel great, productive, and happy. I get way more done. There are all sorts of studies showing all the negative effects of not getti…

Perhaps, I have fallen victim to psuedo-science, as I can't readily produce any papers or reputable articles on the subject, but I thought there was something to getting certain amounts of sleep. Where, if you wake up in the midst of certain portions of the REM cycle, you would actually feel more tired for a length of time. My own experiences seem to fall in line, but it may just be a placebo effect.

Yeah I have to hit a sleep cycle. 5 Hours is terrible, 3.75 is a good amount of sleep for me. If I oversleep and wake off a sleep cycle, e.g. 8.5 hours, I would have been better off getting up earlier and on a sleep cycle (7.5 hours or 3.75 hours). If I sleep 3.75 hours in a night, I will get tired later on in the day, but I won't find it difficult to get up. But I can top up with a nap during the day. My most efficient days have been sleeping in three, 3.75 hour sessions spread throughout the day and without daylight. I wrote my PhD thesis like that. Its not a good method for working with people though.

Re: How much sleep do we really need to work productively?

#30

Post by ExcitedByNoise »

During the week I sleep for 4-6 hours. I go to the gym first thing in the morning and after that I feel great. I sleep in a little bit more on the weekend. Occasionally I will sleep a ton, maybe it's sleep debt.

However, prior to exercising regularly I required much more sleep. Not sure this is anything but anecdotal, but I would be interested in seeing if fitness levels and sleep requirements have any correlation.

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