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“My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

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Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understood , no part of uninsured money will be left for him. Insurance is for Euro 100k, and he has a Dollar Account, that is why he will get only $128k based on the exchange rate.

The funds are currently marked as frozen. I presume that they're still figuring out the exact percentage for the haircut, so the only assets he can use is anything up to the insured amount.

No the decision has been already made, Laikie is being dissolved, so there won't be any haircut. You will get only Euro 100k

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/details-euimf-bailout- agreement-cyprus/20130325

"Laiki will be resolved immediately - with full contribution of equity shareholders, bond holders and uninsured depositors - based on a decision by the Central Bank of Cyprus, using the newly adopted Bank Resolution Framework."

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#102
post #65

I'm not sure why people think investing above the insured deposit ceiling in a badly rated bank is risk free. If you have that much cash, you certainly can do (or pay someone to do) some due diligence and store your assets in a safer way.

Very true I think. When the banks started to fold in the UK I split my cash into units of up to £35000 each into different banks. The guarantee was per institution, not individual. It certainly made more sense to me to fit within the guarantee limits, though there was no absolute guarantee that even those limits would hold.

Is the EU EUR100k guarantee per person and not institution?

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's plain wrong. You don't buy treasury bonds unless you know the interest rate. Even after all the bail outs, all the crisis and despite rising government debt there is no safer investment. It's just usually not used as the sole investment, but rather the safest position in portfolio...

That's exactly my point. You can't even remotely earn enough interest on treasuries to offset the destruction in the dollar that is occurring as the Fed generates massive inflation (aka expands the money supply at a record pace). The M2 is expanding at 12%, and the M1 is expanding at 7.5%. You don't have to take my word for it. The destruction has already occurred, and is getting worse. A 5 minute effort on calculati…

The argument about inflation really depends on what you have to do with the money besides putting it into investments, and what other investment options out there.

It is still consensus that the bond rate + inflation risk is understood much better than any other asset I can think of. I'm talking about the financial term 'risk' here, not the colloquial one that you are using. In financial terms, you can have a loss without any risk and still be happy about the position afterwards...

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#104
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Eurozone is structured to suck the money out of peripheral economies in times of crisis It seems like Greece is doing much of the sucking, much to the chagrin of their stern German neighbors. I don't see the Euro as structurally deficient, I really think this problem is a due to Greek culture in the early 2000s being incompatible with the EU. Remember that Cyprus is a very small country, being half the size of Pi…

An issue with Greek culture? Yes but what about Spain, Italy and Portugal, Ireland - and now maybe Slovenia? They also have immense problems thanks to their Euro status. Truth is that these counties should never have been asked to join the Euro in the first place and this problem will never be fixed while they remain. However it's the big cosy idea that counts in the minds of the Eurocrats, never mind the human cost.…

They are all dealing with their own problems, it's just that almost every country is dealing with their issues instead of postponing it.

You can picture it as going through therapy or adolescence. And boy what a drama that is...

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When push comes to shove, the deposit guarantee may not protect your money. "Back in December 2012 the FDIC and the BoE published a joint paper outlining their new approach for how to resolve any future collapse of one of the Too-Big-To-Fail banks... 'deposit guarantee schemes may be required to contribute to the recapitalization of the firm'[1][2] ...the new system raids the Deposit Protection scheme, gives it to th…

" deposit guarantee schemes may be required to contribute to the recapitalization of the firm " Saying the deposit guarantee scheme may have to contribute means the bank may not have sufficient assets to cover insured deposits and so deposit insurance funds may have to make up the difference. When your house in Staten Island gets razed by Sandy, the insurance company pays up. Similarly, if an insured bank is unable t…

What's funny is that the FDIC is funded by the banks themselves, the same people who need the bail-outs in the first place. The FDIC insurance fund has about $30 billion, while total US bank deposits are around $5 trillion[1], and outstanding derivatives in the hundreds of trillions with JPMorgan Chase[2] holding $78 trillion worth. Who knows how much of this is toxic?

Working backwards, on your second point, if the FDIC ran out of money, the taxpayer might eventually have to step in, which might not be politically feasible if taxpayers have bail-out fatigue.

"During the savings & loan crisis, the FDIC did not have enough in deposit insurance receipts to pay for the Resolution Trust Corporation wind-down vehicle. It had to get more funding from Congress." [3]

On your first point, the full paragraph provides better context, where they are saying they want to use insurance funds to recapitalize the bank and prevent a bust from happening in the first place. Of course, the bank might need more money, leaving the insurance fund empty, and deposit holders at risk.

"34 The U.K. has also given consideration to the recapitalization process in a scenario in which a G-SIFI’s liabilities do not include much debt issuance at the holding company or parent bank level but instead comprise insured retail deposits held in the operating subsidiaries. Under such a scenario, deposit guarantee schemes may be required to contribute to the recapitalization of the firm, as they may do under the Banking Act in the use of other resolution tools. The proposed RRD also permits such an approach because it allows deposit guarantee scheme funds to be used to support the use of resolution tools, including bail-in, provided that the amount contributed does not exceed what the deposit guarantee scheme would have as a claimant in liquidation if it had made a payout to the insured depositors."

[1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-23/u-s-deposits-post-b...

[2] http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/4-wall-st-banks-still...

[3] http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/03/when-you-werent-looki...

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#106
post #5

This fellow is using Laiki bank, and the Cyprus Finance Minister said that they would be seeing an 80% haircut. Relevant: https://twitter.com/finansakrobat/status/316813023639646208

Cyprus's finance minister said Tuesday that large deposit holders at Cyprus Popular Bank PCL (CPB.CP), the island's second biggest lender, could face losses of as much as 80% on their deposits as the government moves to wind down its operations.

Speaking in a television interview with state broadcaster RIC, Michalis Sarris indicated that it could also take years before those depositors see any of their money returned.

"Realistically, very little will be returned," Mr. Sarris said.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013/03/26/cyprus-finance-mi...

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#107

Background and summary (forgive me if some details need correcting): Cyprus is a tiny country with a GDP not much higher than Tim Hortons. Yet, it had something like 150 billion in private funds stored in two of its banks: the Bank of Cyprus and Lakie. Why? Because the majority of the funds (I am generalizing) belongs/belonged to Russians who took advantage of the people on the conversion out of communism (dirty mone…

> Greek's insolvency impacted Cyprus greatly, because a large portion of the Cyprus population are of Greek descent.

Just to add a little context to this. Cyprus is a divided country, as a result of a conflict in 1973 between Turkish Cypriots (and Turkey) and Greek Cypriots (and Greece). The Greek Cypriots favoured unification with Greece (Enosis) whereas the Turkish minority felt threatened by this (due to various times in which sectarian violence had spread on the Island, and also due to fears of reprisals for anti-greek pogroms in mainland Turkey). The whole thing is really complicated and basically no-one wins.

Fast forward to 2004 and a referendum is held on whether Cyprus should unify. The Turkish north votes yes, the Greek south votes no and Cyprus enters the Euro leaving Northern Cyprus out in the cold.

The people with over 100k Euros that are being affected the most aren't the Russian depositors but older Cypriots who rode the tourist property boom. There was a vote on this and it was turned down, and then the Troika (of the Eurozone countries, ECB and IMF) decided they'd sidestep the whole thing and re-arrange the country's banking system for them.

The amount the troika were looking for was not a great deal of money to the EU or IMF, about €6 billion. This represents less than the amount spent on administration or internal policies in the last budget, and would be less than a fifth of the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) budget. This figure was also arbitrarily decided by the troika not based on what Cyprus could actually afford (given the size of it's collapsing economy) but for political reasons because it's politically unacceptable for Germany to be seen by Germans to provide no strings bailouts to another Greece, and the IMF wanted to restructure Cyprus' banking system.

The big problem is that with this intervention it sets two extremely dangerous precedents. The first is that exiting the Euro (which would've been better for Cyprus) is not an option for bankrupt Eurozone countries. It's not even on the table. The second is that what's happened in Cyprus this week can happen in Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg (where the real Russian money is) or Ireland next week or at any point in the future, and as Shenglong said, banks are the major savings depository for most of Europe. If that doesn't scare my American friends then nothing will.

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that the majority of these accounts are from foreign people, but that doesn't mean there is anything illegal with putting your money on a Cyprus bank account. Please note that Cyprus is part of the EU for a long time, and this way of tax avoiding (not evasion) is completely legal.

As of December 2012 62% of deposits in Cyprus were by domestic residents. Removing the €5,3 billion in non-Cypriot euro-deposits and we find about 31% of the mostly Russian and British deposits [1]. The political problem were the foreign deposits. The financial problem were 2011 foreign deposits at 82% of GDP, total deposits 2011 nearly 3x GDP, and bank assets 5-7x GDP. [1] http://www.centralbank.gov.cy/media/xls/2nd…

A lot of the British deposits were made by the UK MOD in order to pay staff at the two British airbases in Cyprus. Understandably, many of these staff had deposits in local banks.

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#109
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah...funny thing is blaming the EU. The banks were lending out the money on what turned out to be bad assets, not sure there's any cure for that where deposits don't get wrecked. Iceland before, Cyprus now, not sure what they think will happen to Carribean banks in the long run. Bitcoin might be an ok solution for people who don't care about earning interest, but if you still want the interest you have to deal with…

even funnier thing is thinking that these haircuts are gonna do much… the template according to troika is to do more of the same :D granted the only future i see in bitcoins is in actual business transactions and not earnings interests,which with typical fiat are subject to the whims of ZIRP and central m̶a̶n̶i̶p̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ planning :D (which [number of business transactions with bitcoins for goods or services] h…

There hasn't been a lot of evidence for the idea that having no fiscal policy is better than having a bad or moderate one.

Finance can deal with inflation and deflation. Economies can't usually deal well with either, but deflation seems to be worse, and constant value is impossible and probably not better than inflation.

People are more than their bank statements. They breath their money through their life style and even survival. That is why money shouldn't stay still.

Re: “My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.”

#110
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming evil banks and profligate creditors while tightening the money supply wasn't a particularly fruitful thing to do the last time there was a global economic crisis, and a whole lot of modern macro was about not repeating that mistake. Then the world goes around and repeats the same offenses, and the public once again buys the easy, moralistic stories. Bleh. The fact of the matter is that the Eurozone is a bad i…

The events unfolding in the Eurozone is the result of it being only a monetary union instead of a fiscal and monetary union. Milton Friedman predicted this would happen in '04.

Tons of people predict tons of doom in advance... It's not really a smart idea to pick the "correct" doomsayer a decade later...
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